PCGS submissions, Grading Opinions

[trout]

I haven't seen a PCGS image in this sort of format before, What is the go here?

I've seen another image like that, it looks like a cheapskate version of TrueView. Probably a cost-cutting measure since it standardises all coins to the same size as the holder.

The image quality is pretty shoddy and not professional looking.

[stevo1962]

I haven't seen a PCGS image in this sort of format before, What is the go here?

http://www.pcgs.com/cert/80296552

It's the Hong Kong fomat.I suspect they might be sending our coins there because they cant handle the volume in California

[trout]

I haven't seen a PCGS image in this sort of format before, What is the go here?

http://www.pcgs.com/cert/80296552

It's the Hong Kong fomat.I suspect they might be sending our coins there because they cant handle the volume in California

I would be pretty upset if I ended up with  lousy images like that with a submission of mine.
The images are not even in focus .

[r9453]

It's the Hong Kong fomat.I suspect they might be sending our coins there because they cant handle the volume in California

If that is the case then I would say it's another disappointing development in the ongoing deterioration of PCGS services.

[trout]

I have a backlog of coins that I want to have graded by PCGS so that I can add them to my set registries But I am reluctant to submit them at the moment because of the amount of basic and stupid stuff ups and the agonisingly slow turnarounds.
I also have a few coins that I want to send away for reconsideration But at the moment I don't think that they will receive the attention that they deserve and will be rushed through.
I am just going to sit back and wait for PCGS to get its act back together and start to grade and attribute correctly and accurately again.

[purplepennyhunter]

Why is it not secure plus?

[ausproofs]

I love PCGS coins however if they dont listen to customers and their needs, they will end up like many other organizations in the past... they will dissappear from the radar... May be this is creating an opportunity for a reputable and talented numismatic expert to start a new venture....

[trout]

Why is it not secure plus?

It is a bit strange because PCGS require that a World regular or economy submission has to use the secure option.
This coin is in a standard holder and usually there is NO image provided with this tier.

I love PCGS coins however if they dont listen to customers and their needs, they will end up like many other organizations in the past... they will dissappear from the radar... May be this is creating an opportunity for a reputable and talented numismatic expert to start a new venture....

I think that APCGS has muddied the waters too much for any such venture to gain any traction at the moment.

[autocoupler]

May be this is creating an opportunity for a reputable and talented numismatic expert to start a new venture....

I reckon there are quite a few respected and knowledgeable people involved in  Australian numismatics right now who would do a great job running a franchise, or something similar. The big question is would it be worth their while? Listening to the many proponents of third party grading, and where they believe the industry is heading in this country, it just may be.

If something like this did eventuate, I could see Australian slabbed coins that were graded locally by Australian coin experts being highly sort after, and as a consequence, the current crop of coins being graded across the ocean by people not completely in tune with the idiosyncrasies of Australian minting processes may experience a drop off in desirability.

Just being the devils advocate :diablo::biggrin::angel:

[ausproofs]

May be this is creating an opportunity for a reputable and talented numismatic expert to start a new venture....

I reckon there are quite a few respected and knowledgeable people involved in  Australian numismatics right now who would do a great job running a franchise, or something similar. The big question is would it be worth their while? Listening to the many proponents of third party grading, and where they believe the industry is heading in this country, it just may be.

If something like this did eventuate, I could see Australian slabbed coins that were graded locally by Australian coin experts being highly sort after, and as a consequence, the current crop of coins being graded across the ocean by people not completely in tune with the idiosyncrasies of Australian minting processes may experience a drop off in desirability.

Just being the devils advocate :diablo::biggrin::angel:

Good call... you will be a fantastic devils advocate :yahoo:

[markn]

and as a consequence, the current crop of coins being graded across the ocean by people not completely in tune with the idiosyncrasies of Australian minting processes may experience a drop off in desirability.

Just being the devils advocate :diablo::biggrin::angel:

While there is certainly specialised knowledge with regard to varieties among our coinage there is nothing unique about the way it was minted and nor do you (as some anti-TPG dealers would like you to think) need some unique "only available to Aussie's skills" to grade them.  It's that sort of rubbish that leads to grades like "CHUNC for this issue", making up grades for issues that are notoriously poorly struck or preserved.  It's much better to have a consistent grading standard applied to all coins regardless of place of origin than to have region specific grading.   I would happily back in the world coin graders at PCGS (and NGC) for quality and consistency of grading compared with any small operation in Australia that is grading inside what is, essentially a tiny market.  

And let's just put aside the fact that two very well known numismatists in Australia have already proven it's impossible to run a self-sustaining grading company down here and they needed to deal in coins too.  While it might not have affected their impartiality there is ALWAYS going to be an issue in the market with a grading company selling their own graded coins.  It simply can't work long term.

[trout]

While there is certainly specialised knowledge with regard to varieties among our coinage there is nothing unique about the way it was minted and nor do you (as some anti-TPG dealers would like you to think) need some unique "only available to Aussie's skills" to grade them. It's that sort of rubbish that leads to grades like "CHUNC for this issue", making up grades for issues that are notoriously poorly struck or preserved. It's much better to have a consistent grading standard applied to all coins regardless of place of origin that to have region specific grading. I would happily back in the world coin graders at PCGS (and NGC) for quality and consistency of grading compared with any small operation in Australia that is grading inside what is, essentially a tiny market.

 And let's just put aside the fact that two very well known numismatists in Australia have already proven it's impossible to run a self-sustaining grading company down here and they needed to deal in coins too. While it might not have affected their impartiality there is ALWAYS going to be an issue in the market with a grading company selling their own graded coins. It simply can't work long term.

:agreed:
If it was a viable option to set up a grading company in Australia then NGC and/or PCGS would have done it by now.
These two companies are well respected, Established and have all the infrastructure already in place and all that would be required is for them to set up shop in one of the Major cities here.
Neither of them have done so at the moment, Maybe in the future they may expand their operations to Australia Who knows :ok:

[autocoupler]

and as a consequence, the current crop of coins being graded across the ocean by people not completely in tune with the idiosyncrasies of Australian minting processes may experience a drop off in desirability.

Just being the devils advocate :diablo::biggrin::angel:

While there is certainly specialised knowledge with regard to varieties among our coinage there is nothing unique about the way it was minted and nor do you (as some anti-TPG dealers would like you to think) need some unique "only available to Aussie's skills" to grade them.  It's that sort of rubbish that leads to grades like "CHUNC for this issue", making up grades for issues that are notoriously poorly struck or preserved.  It's much better to have a consistent grading standard applied to all coins regardless of place of origin than to have region specific grading.   I would happily back in the world coin graders at PCGS (and NGC) for quality and consistency of grading compared with any small operation in Australia that is grading inside what is, essentially a tiny market.  

And let's just put aside the fact that two very well known numismatists in Australia have already proven it's impossible to run a self-sustaining grading company down here and they needed to deal in coins too.  While it might not have affected their impartiality there is ALWAYS going to be an issue in the market with a grading company selling their own graded coins.  It simply can't work long term.

Whilst my devils advocate quote was simply an intended tongue in cheek comment separating supposed Aussie local knowledge from generic foreign grading, I very much doubt that those employed as graders with the TPG's, and lets face it, there must be many, would know too much at all about the        various strike qualities and unique planchet characteristics of our pre decimal coinage from the Perth Mint for example. As you said, ours is a tiny market, so the likely hood of them even wanting to know is minimal. I know you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, but IMO this information  should be an important consideration when assessing our coins.

As far as backing anyone in as you put it, are you comparing apples with apples? Lets not muddy the waters as so often happens during debates on such subjects by including the scammer's, dodgers and those driven by self interest. Most often, those who have had bad experiences at the hands of such operators haven't done their homework and have lacked discipline.  

Regardless of whether it's commercially viable or not, there is undoubtedly a number of respected and knowledgeable people in this country who display the impartiality, skill, experience and moral code required to pull something like this off. It's often these qualities that separate the failures from the successes anyway, and lets not forget greed.

While ever people in the industry are quick to say these things can't happen, I guess they won't, and I see similarities with this numismatic subject and our general non preparedness to decentralise in this country.  How silly it is to see millions of people commuting 100's of km's to the confines of a city each day, particularly as  these days there is very little need for face to face contact, when all that needs to happen in many cases is for businesses to deliver themselves from the clutches of Government and the self serving interests of the real estate industry by setting up where the population actually live.

[markn]

Whilst my devils advocate quote was simply an intended tongue in cheek comment separating supposed Aussie local knowledge from generic foreign grading, I very much doubt that those employed as graders with the TPG's, and lets face it, there must be many, would know too much at all about the various strike qualities and unique planchet characteristics of our pre decimal coinage from the Perth Mint for example.

I agree with all of what you say.  But what you've said here is exactly why PCGS and NGC give a more consistent result.  They dont need to know about the various strike qualities or planchet characteristics of any country's coinage.  They just need to apply their standards with regards to lustre, surface preservation, bag marks and so on.  They don't care that Perth mint bronze is shockingly struck and that they almost never come in mint red.  They just need to grade it to their own standards.  It's up to collectors to know such minutiae, and not just among different countries, but different coin series, denominations and years.

[wwwww]

PCGS doesn't consider the strike/planchet characteristics of a particular issue in their grade. They only consider the coin at hand.

E.g. the best struck 1941-KG penny might only grade MS64 while a Canberra florin with slightly flat steps can grade MS67.

The reason for this is because if you look at the two objectively, the Canberra florin is still better struck up than the 1941-KG penny while in Australia they judge each coin against others of the same issue rather than to a strict universal standard.

Under the Australian method you know a GEM should be among the best of the issue while under the PCGS you can look up the pop charts to see that an MS64 1941-KG penny is among the best.