1933 Overdate Shilling

[Basilstate]

I'll throw this up whilst its quiet,does anyone know anything about these Coins?,i notice Echi had one for sale a while back.
They were a legitimate rare variety in the 1960's but seem to have been discounted since by the post 1980's new breed of researchers.I've never seen 2 the same but some seemed to have something sitting under the final 4.

[nealeffendi]

There was an article in CAB a couple of years back that discounted this variety on the basis that the bit that looks like the top left of a 3 is in the wrong position for the '33 shilling. The article was well written (Peter Andrews IIRC) and proves that the hub/dies used for the '33 shilling was not the cause of the fault.
However... that assumes that the '33 shilling was the source of this "overdate". now we know that Melbourne made 2 different hubs for the '32 halfpenny and the '31 penny and the '34 threepence so why not 2 '33 hubs where the unused one was the source? Or can we discount the possibility that they had a '32 shilling die made but never used?
Anybody got an Unc example to examine for die markers? Better yet a couple of high grades to see if this variety is found on 2 or more dies which would strengthen the evidence that it is a genuine overdate.

[echidna]

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First one is the best overdate I've seen.
Overdate is strong.

They are not too hard to find actually.
Problem is finding one with a strong overdate and getting a good pic.

[echidna]

Link to the full res version:

https://d1htnxwo4o0jhw.cloudfront.net/pcgs/cert/36314673/157960629.jpg

[Mister T]

I don't pay much attention to the overdates but I remember the article that Neal mentioned and it was well written.

[nealeffendi]

The 3rd image and the PCGS graded coin are both from the same die. there is a die polish line arcing above the date on both of them and they both have a small dot on the left leg of the 2nd A in austrAlia in the ribbon. They also only show "something" on the left side of the 4 whereas the first 2 coins have "something" that is more pronounced and on either side of the 4. That is the sort of  "something" that implies several partially hubbed dies (1932? 1933?) were finished with the '34 hub.

[Basilstate]

However... that assumes that the '33 shilling was the source of this "overdate". now we know that Melbourne made 2 different hubs for the '32 halfpenny and the '31 penny and the '34 threepence so why not 2 '33 hubs where the unused one was the source? Or can we discount the possibility that they had a '32 shilling die made but never used?

Who knows Neal,one thing for sure the Melb. Mint didn't use the idle time of the depression era 1930's to keep accurate records and the one fact out of all this was they were experimenting with Hubs/Dies at that time.

[echidna]

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Another example. (pic Sterling & Currency)
From memory that CAB article dismissed the overdate bit as a "die scratch".

The sixpence version also exists and is very similar to the shilling.

[nealeffendi]

The Peter Andrews article was Nov 2012 pages 14-15 with only 2 coins examined.
And now echidna mentions that there is a sixpence version, dang now I'll have to see if I have one in my collection.

[nealeffendi]

Echidna, do you have any images of the '34 sixpence overdate? My copy of Briggs Sixpences (2nd edition) pages 139-141 covers the '34 sixpence and he states that there were no overdate sixpences  for any year. Dr Briggs also states he examined 1000 '34 sixpences and found 12% had a wide date. So presumably he would have noticed an overdate when checking the dates.

[Basilstate]

Echidna, do you have any images of the '34 sixpence overdate? My copy of Briggs Sixpences (2nd edition) pages 139-141 covers the '34 sixpence and he states that there were no overdate sixpences  for any year. Dr Briggs also states he examined 1000 '34 sixpences and found 12% had a wide date. So presumably he would have noticed an overdate when checking the dates.

Not necessarily,he makes his observations appear as facts when they are just that, his educated opinion based on Mint Records and examination of Coins.Very persuasive but may or may not be 100% correct.
He states all 1933 3d Dies were destroyed,what if they weren't and the Mint Records were incorrect/fabricated for whatever reason.What if one of the Engineers/employees kept them in a draw to experiment with.
Researchers have to keep an open mind,anything is possible as far as activities go at the Melb. Mint during the Depression era. 

As regards my OP everyone in our little group up here reckons that's the final 3 of the 1933 Shilling sitting under the 4,under a loupe it stands out but i can't get a good USB shot of it.The first 3 is different to a normal 33 Shilling however.

[echidna]

Echidna, do you have any images of the '34 sixpence overdate? My copy of Briggs Sixpences (2nd edition) pages 139-141 covers the '34 sixpence and he states that there were no overdate sixpences  for any year. Dr Briggs also states he examined 1000 '34 sixpences and found 12% had a wide date. So presumably he would have noticed an overdate when checking the dates.

Yes, these are much much harder to find than the shilling.

[Basilstate]

Throw this up whilst its quiet,possible overdate Florin,scanner is playing up,if anyone wants full Obv/Rev Pics. let me know.

[echidna]

Looks similar to the shilling version.

[Basilstate]

Possible 1934 6d overdate.
Appears to be remnants of a 3 hiding under the 4.