1933 Overdate Shilling

[echidna]

Nice pics.
The area of the date is also raised slightly.

[fred lever]

Re post #44 "overdate 1934 shilling.
Quote:
"What i can't understand is how contemporary Reseachers/Coin experts don't even mention them in their 'factual' history of pre-Dec. Coins."
EH!
As a part time "researcher/expert" I normally let comments like that go through to the keeper, but not this time, back  over the boundary fence it goes!
The subject has been covered endlessly by luminaries like  Peter Andrews, Dr David Briggs and even little " factual","dot joiner" part timer me.

It (the 34 shilling) is just part of the blunders at the mint while overhubbing dates from one punch to another.
This carnage appears on lots of silver but especially the 3d 6d and 1/-.

For a start, just refer to David Brigg's book on silver or my article in CAB sep 2021 page 10 where I muse about the 34 shilling date in particular.
I think both Briggs silver book or a 2021 article could be called contemporary, if you bother to read them.

Cheers, Fred Lever.

[Basilstate]

Good to see you posting Fred and i hope your health is ok.

The Briggs book was sent to me by yourself Fred,unless you left a section out there is no mention of the 34 Shilling overdate but extensive detail on the 34 3d. Also there is a narrow date 34/33 3d,Pics are in the 3d thread.

If you can post an article on the 1934/33 Shilling written/published after 1970 and before the early 2000's ,when Ebay started, i will apologise as i never seen one but i had a life to lead so its more than possible.

[fred lever]

Oh, sorry Basil, my apologies, I did not realise "contemporary" meant "published after 1970 and before the early 2000's when ebay started".
My mistake, I thought contemporary meant "as of today" like in the past 20 years or so.
Silly me!
Keep up the good work.
Fred.

[Basilstate]

My Brother reminded me there was a couple of overdate 34 Shillings on Ebay Oz. in the early days,2000-2001,so someone knew about them back then.
We have been discussing them on this Forum since slightly after it first started,6d as well but i'm not sure about them.

I have about 6 good egs. and probably the same number of 'iffy' egs.,i'm hoping Macca will put them in his new book so i can get them slabbed.

Anyway Fred not a subject to argue on,i'm sure we can find something more substantial to disagree on,LOL.

As i said its good to see you posting and i hope your health is ok.

[fred lever]

Hi Basil just to add to the subject, of course there was no contemporary mention ( from 1934 to 2000) of a 4 OVER 3 " 1/- overdate simply because such a coin does not exist!
This is why it is no good dwelling in the past and why it is necessary to keep up with modern research.
I quickly pulled up the references from about 2010 onwards to do with the date changes, appearances of dates on the shillings.

2010 Lever CAB Vol 13 -03 p34.
2012 Andrews CAB Vol 15-10
2016 Lever CAB Vol 19-07
2018 Briggs Silver book, 2nd ed page 153 to page 154
2021 Lever CAB Vol 24-08 p10.
2009? Saxton (vale) triton web site, now no longer available.
( and that shows why it is so important to get research into print, not on a web site)!
Apologies to others I have missed!

The ongoing research by authors above has shown the overhubbing of punches or dies to change dates, sometimes is not that cleverly done and rennmants of earlier dates may not be properly erased. In the case of the 1934 shilling there are multiple dies used with the original 1,9,3 (pick any number like 0,1,2,3)  squirming all over the place. It's not just a 3 OVER 4! its a 1934 over other datesof tooling from 1920's to 1930's.
I woke up after Saxton/Effendi/ Briggs made me realise what was going on.
Briggs opinion in Silver, is a renmant does show up under the 4 but then when you see all the renmants under the other numerals , as shown in this thread, and it all becomes clear.

You can never get a slabbed 34 shilling to be called an "overdate", its the WHOLE date string that has been changed. And there are many different dies and examples of the 34.

The only ONLY "overdate" where a die has a had a punch applied to change a date numeral slap over the last numeral is the 22/21 threepence, in the aussie pre decimal series.
All the other dates with bits sticking out under top numerals are HUBBING overdating  mishaps.

The 1943 3 over 4 overdate does not exist, simple.

Cheers, Fred.

Oh and still hanging in there, covid has not gone away and its tough to recover from.
Thanks.

[Basilstate]

Oh and still hanging in there, covid has not gone away and its tough to recover from.
Thanks.

Fred ,!!!,my head is hurting,i might leave it there.

Great to see you posting and hope you bounce back.

[gnome61]

Jon Saxton/Triton's page has been saved by a few of us, so not all his research is lost.

[nealeffendi]

I printed off about 200+ pages from Triton nearly 20 years back and have them stored away. I don't trust the internet to store things, sometimes things get deleted, shows page not found, 404 etc. And sometimes things have been edited to cover things up and put down the memory hole what was there before.

[Basilstate]

Jon Saxton/Triton's page has been saved by a few of us, so not all his research is lost. http://web.archive.org/web/20110930140309/http://www.triton.vg/ozcoins.html

Thanks Gnome,as stated probably best to print everything out for future reference.

I was in contact with Jon about 10 years ago about the 1933 Half-Penny Overdate(if it is an overdate),his health was declining but he still managed to comment on the egs. i sent him.

https://www.coinsandaustralia.com/coins-articles-australia.php?article=overdates-in-australian-commonwealth-coins&id=93

[gnome61]

No problem, will edit and delete the link.

[Basilstate]

Miss read my Post Gnome,that's a great link of some of Saxton's work/research,deserves to be available.
Just saying it probably best to print it out for future reference.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110930140309/http://www.triton.vg/ozcoins.html