2007 Double Headed 5c

[Hercules]

I'm just guessing here, but I reckon if these are deliberately made.
But they would have to be made on the proof press one at a time, because there's no way they could be fed into the main press which pumps out hundreds at a time turn them over & feed them through again, but done on the proof press easy one at a time turn it over do it again.
Just my guess.

Why would they need to be fed through twice? Surely, it wouldn't be difficult for a worker to remove the reverse die and replace it with an obverse die by mistake. Once they realised their mistake, they would have corrected it, but not before some of them slipped through quality control.

[interest]

I'm just guessing here, but I reckon if these are deliberately made.
But they would have to be made on the proof press one at a time, because there's no way they could be fed into the main press which pumps out hundreds at a time turn them over & feed them through again, but done on the proof press easy one at a time turn it over do it again.
Just my guess.

Why would they need to be fed through twice? Surely, it wouldn't be difficult for a worker to remove the reverse die and replace it with an obverse die by mistake. Once they realised their mistake, they would have corrected it, but not before some of them slipped through quality control.

2 reasons,
the first:-
press and die tooling is machined such that the obverse and reverse dies can only be used in conjunction - only reverse dies fit in one side, and only obverse dies fit in the other . . . The chance of the circulating presses making double heads or double tails is extremely remote, as the tools would have to be incorrectly made and pass through several quality checks before coining.
the second:-
if you look at these coins you will notice that the Heads are all differently rotated to each other.

[Fulvio]

The place has changed a lot since 2007 (oops)

Y'think? :dodgy:

From memory, there were presses on the left side of the gallery, directly opposite where they installed the first robot. But I haven't been there in many years, let alone done a tour.

When's the next one, anyway?

if you look at these coins you will notice that the Heads are all differently rotated to each other.

Yup. The keying is such that the only way to get the die in is upside down, and even then, It would never happen on a production press.

These sports are no accident.

[r9453]

I'm just guessing here, but I reckon if these are deliberately made.
But they would have to be made on the proof press one at a time, because there's no way they could be fed into the main press which pumps out hundreds at a time turn them over & feed them through again, but done on the proof press easy one at a time turn it over do it again.
Just my guess.

I agree they are deliberately made but I don't follow this part, "turn it over do it again". I thought these were made with two obverse dies, one of which is adapted/machined so that it can replace the reverse die.

[Fulvio]

I don't follow this part, "turn it over do it again

Me neither. Doing that would crush the already-struck design. It would stick out like the proverbial... :angel:

[runway]

I'm just guessing here, but I reckon if these are deliberately made.
But they would have to be made on the proof press one at a time, because there's no way they could be fed into the main press which pumps out hundreds at a time turn them over & feed them through again, but done on the proof press easy one at a time turn it over do it again.
Just my guess.

Why would they need to be fed through twice? Surely, it wouldn't be difficult for a worker to remove the reverse die and replace it with an obverse die by mistake. Once they realised their mistake, they would have corrected it, but not before some of them slipped through quality control.

2 reasons,
the first:-
press and die tooling is machined such that the obverse and reverse dies can only be used in conjunction - only reverse dies fit in one side, and only obverse dies fit in the other . . . The chance of the circulating presses making double heads or double tails is extremely remote, as the tools would have to be incorrectly made and pass through several quality checks before coining.
the second:-
if you look at these coins you will notice that the Heads are all differently rotated to each other.

Exactly :wavemulticolor:

[runway]

I don't use Facebook so I have not read what is on there, but I did go back and read the thread in CCF.
It did stand out a bit to me that there were a fair number of new posters to that thread.
It looks a bit like one person promoting the idea that these are found in circulation when really, they are just in the hands of a few people connected to the creation of these coins.
Has anyone here found one?

You could be right Oz as there is one guy on facebook saying that he has found about 15 of them.Maybe he was the production manager

Who is that guy that gloats 15 found stevo? :dodgy:

[Ozcoins]

Exactly as Fulvio said.
It would take 2 dies and 1 strike.

[planchetflaw]

Found one myself in 2009 in change from coffee in Surry Hills. Have seen or heard of at least 16 in person (not found myself), not to mention all the ones that go through auction. Mostly found around Sydney city. One guy's little girl found one on the street and showed her dad because of the two heads. He showed me and it had definitely been on the street for a while with scratches all over it from probably being run over. I don't have facebook, so that 15 person isn't me. But I feel very confident that these were accidental and those that have them genuinely found them.

[Hercules]

That's what I think as well. If these are mint sport, then why have so many of them ended up in general circulation? :dontknow:

[stevo1962]

I don't use Facebook so I have not read what is on there, but I did go back and read the thread in CCF.
It did stand out a bit to me that there were a fair number of new posters to that thread.
It looks a bit like one person promoting the idea that these are found in circulation when really, they are just in the hands of a few people connected to the creation of these coins.
Has anyone here found one?

You could be right Oz as there is one guy on facebook saying that he has found about 15 of them.Maybe he was the production manager

Who is that guy that gloats 15 found stevo? :dodgy:

It was the guy who owns the FNQ  page

[Fulvio]

why have so many of them ended up in general circulation? :dontknow:

The woman who got busted was spending them, precisely so that they would turn up in circulation, and take suspicion off her when she started flogging the uncirculated ones she had.

They cost you nothing, so its a no-brainer. Cheap insurance against going to jail. Well, that's the theory at least, since she got busted anyway.

[trout]

From what I have read and have been told the obverse dies are quite a different shape/fit to the reverse dies and that they wont fit into the wrong place on the press.
So for a double headed or a double tail coin to be produced it HAS to be done deliberately and cannot be done accidently.
Is this an "Urban Myth" or can someone substantiate this?

[Fulvio]

Is this an "Urban Myth" or can someone substantiate this?

Ross confirmed they're sports, though he didn't go into detail.

I plan on taking a close look and asking many questions next time I'm up there for a tour. Hopefully so will everyone else, and we can get to the bottom of this. With pictures.

[trout]

Ross confirmed they're sports, though he didn't go into detail.

That's Good enough for Me. :good:
The thing that really gets my goat up is that the TPG's are grading these things and calling them genuine errors when they are most certainly aware that they are Mint Sport and NOT a genuine error coin.
Maybe IF they were to attribute them correctly as "Mint Sport" then they wouldn't be so popular and the "Bum Smugglers" at RAM wouldn't have such a ready market for their ill gotten products.