Received in change

[Fulvio]

No luck finding it, but I did find these three cuds, two of which are upset, albeit to a lesser degree.




Sorry for the crappy photos. Overcast daylight and a large degree of CBF factor.

[Goldseeker]

I have found quite a few cuds on these coins and still have a few spares.   However, not finding much these days as I can only get $500 worth of coins at a time and not getting the quantity that I used to get.   Because of this, I am returning to circulation any cud coins that I already have.

[Fulvio]

bruce , these are the 2 I have .    ,, kel ,,

If my eyes don't deceive me, the right one also has a cud.

And two questions...

Why align the obverse in the mount, when its the one doing the rotating?

And what's the difference between Offset and Upset?

Because of this, I am returning to circulation any cud coins that I already have.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save them for me, Goldy. Don't throw them back! You know I'm happy to take just about anything off your hands. Heck, I'd even be happy to bring a sack of un-noodled coins over with me. :angel:

[Mister T]

Why align the obverse in the mount, when its the one doing the rotating?

I won't speak for keldaw but I thought this was relevant.

[keldaw]

fulvio,
 number  one question ,

 mate , no difference, between offset and upset just what I write on some as I don't know the right term for them .

 2 nd question , place coin in 2 x 2 , then put a cross on both sides of

2 x 2 and that shows correctly the degree of the upset, with out

 having to measure it just turn it over and then you can see it

 straight away .. .. ,, kel ,,

[Nevol]

When placing a suspected upset coin in a 2x2, it's usually best to place the reverse in the upright position.  This is because it's the Obv that gets rotated (as Fulvio said).  

I have a few 2001 20c that are rotated, but it's so slight, that I haven't even bothered to put them in 2x2's. I think it's only about 5° and that's most likely within the RAM's tolerance.  I also have some $1's that are similar. Can't remember which years though.

[keldaw]

thanks for that nancy  , now I understand

 sorry fulvio  now I understand what you mean .

 the reverse and obverse , sometimes I cant remember what that means so I say head side and tail side , sorry if  I confused you .

 I always thought the head was the important side , because of the queen , and it was the tail side that would move ..
thank you both for clearing that up for me ..   ,, kel ,,

[Goldseeker]

One just can't say "it's the obverse that is rotated".   This may not be the case.

Take for example the 2001 Cent of Federation, it is the Obverse, (Heads), that rotates and not the Reverse, (Tails).   Prove it you will say well here goes.

Have a good look at the alignment of the Reeding on the 2001 COF $1 coin and compare it's position with that of the letter "TI" of the word FEDERATION.   It is in the same alignment on any of these coins , it doesn't move.   Now have a look at the Obverse and one can clearly see, if you have an upset, that the Obverse is rotated or moves from the alignment of the Reeding described above.   This then proves the Obverse rotates and not the Reverse.   I gave this scenario to the RAM personnel when many years ago, they threw the production floor open and I took some upsets and Mules to show the RAM.   After seeing my coins two things happened:

1.   My scenario re the movement of the Obverse on the 2001 COF $1 coins was agreed; and
2.   The then CEO of RAM confirmed the existence of the 2000 Mule.   Up till this time, it was denied by the RAM.

Now, to give blanket state that it is the Obverse that moves on all upsets is wrong until proved.

[Fulvio]

Now, to give blanket state that it is the Obverse that moves on all upsets is wrong until proved.

Except that the Reverse is always the bottom, anvil die, and cannot rotate. Therefore its always the top, hammer die, the Obverse, which rotates.

That's why I mount them the way I do, and I suspect most others do too. Nothing to do with the relative importance of the portrait or anything. Besides, given that some Reverses don't have clear alignment hints in their designs, it provides for more consistency and makes it easier.

Didn't someone fairly recently post the tolerances the mint finds acceptable? It wasn't much, IIRC.

[Nevol]

I also understood the Obv was nearly always the hammer die, that's why I use the Rev to orient the coins in the 2x2's.

[Goldseeker]

I have now been made aware that the hammer die is the obverse.   As that is the case I give in to previous statements.   Thanks for educating me.

[keldaw]

to me it really does not matter which die moves , as long as I put them in a 2 x 2 and put a cross on both sides  and line one side up north then turn it over and look at the other side and then I can see if they both meet or not , if they don't meet at the cross then I have an up set coin .
 I also use your invention , bruce with the cardboard with the hole in the middle and put the coin in it and I have the degrees worked out like a clock on the cardboard , but only in 5 minutes lots ..
I am just happy to have any upsets , no matter what the degrees is .thank you all for your comments .   ,, kel ,,

[Mister T]

Besides, given that some Reverses don't have clear alignment hints in their designs, it provides for more consistency and makes it easier.

That's exactly why I make the reverse the right way up.

[kanjoe07]

Two weeks ago I went to the bank to change $350 into $1 coins as part of a cheeky 21st birthday present from our friendship group. When building a pyramid out of the $1 coins (because I was procrastinating from assignment work), I found three $1 coins that shouldn't have been in there: 1998 Howard Florey, 2008 Centenary of Quarantine and 2012 Wheat Sheaf 'C' Mintmark. To find three non-circulating commemoratives completely shocked me and I immediately put them aside.

[Australian coin]

nice finds