1920 Dot over top scroll English

nealeffendi · December 18, 2013, 10:16:44 AM

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='37105' dateline='1386985735'Did you ever find the article nealeffendi? I'm getting a book on Australian bronze coins by a Dr David L Briggs as a gift early in January but I'm not sure when the book was published or whether there's any mention of the penny in question.

I have had a series of emails with David. His book is sold out so I'm waiting for the next edition, you are lucky to get one as he even sold his own copy.

black sheep · December 20, 2013, 07:06:37 PM

I found a 1920 double dot in one of penny sets

Mister T · December 21, 2013, 01:56:39 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='37408' dateline='1387324004'I have had a series of emails with David. His book is sold out so I'm waiting for the next edition, you are lucky to get one as he even sold his own copy.

Yes it's almost like the book doesn't exist.
Any information on the dot over top scroll London die?

robbiegal · December 21, 2013, 03:38:38 PM

Quote from: 'black sheep' pid='37575' dateline='1387528597'I found a 1920 double dot in one of penny sets

not bad mate
I don't believe that I have ever found one with a centre diamond

stevo1962 · December 21, 2013, 04:23:48 PM

Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='37653' dateline='1387602518'
Quote from: 'black sheep' pid='37575' dateline='1387528597'I found a 1920 double dot in one of penny sets

not bad mate
I don't believe that I have ever found one with a centre diamond

There are still plenty of them out there so I've recently discovered

nealeffendi · December 23, 2013, 11:16:56 AM

Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='37664' dateline='1387605228'
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='37653' dateline='1387602518'
Quote from: 'black sheep' pid='37575' dateline='1387528597'I found a 1920 double dot in one of penny sets

not bad mate
I don't believe that I have ever found one with a centre diamond

There are still plenty of them out there so I've recently discovered

I have to agree, the double dot was from a single die that struck lots of coins, probably more than the 3 English dies and dot over top combined.
Still is nice to find one, especially in a decent grade.
As for the Dot Over Top English.... I'll hold my final word until after I read Davids book.

Mister T · January 07, 2014, 04:46:18 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='37891' dateline='1387759616'As for the Dot Over Top English.... I'll hold my final word until after I read Davids book.

Well I got my hands on the book.
The image given for the London obverse dot over top scroll appears to be of the same coin in image 14 in your and Fred Lever's article in the December/January Coin and Banknote magazine.

nealeffendi · January 07, 2014, 07:13:23 PM

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='39081' dateline='1389075378'
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='37891' dateline='1387759616'As for the Dot Over Top English.... I'll hold my final word until after I read Davids book.

Well I got my hands on the book.
The image given for the London obverse dot over top scroll appears to be of the same coin in image 14 in your and Fred Lever's article in the December/January Coin and Banknote magazine.

Thanks Mr T.
So it has the line through IND? (the obverse has that fault). Davids a top notch collector with a first rate collection, but (like all of us) he makes mistakes (it is how we learn) and I'm 99.9% convinced that he has misidentified a ding as a dot (Fred has done that, so have I). Having a few hundred 1920 English I have seen plenty of random dings but it all ultimately comes down to 3 die pairs for the English and a different die pair for the Dot Above Top.
BTW where did you obtain your copy? I'm looking to buy one and I don't know who is selling them.
Fred emailed me last week, another installment likely in the Feb issue of CAB.

Mister T · January 07, 2014, 10:40:45 PM

I don't think the photo is good enough to see that but it does have the rim fault above BRITT.
I agree that a mistake is possible but the book goes on to say that 14 dot over top scroll London were found in 1000 1920 pennies (21 dot under bottom scroll London were also found). One would think more than one had a proper visible dot.
I got my copy of ebay. No idea what the primary source was.

What's the next article going to cover?

Fordprefect · January 08, 2014, 12:16:54 AM

Mister T,

Does Dr Briggs book have a Title and ISBN No. ?:idea:

Mister T · January 08, 2014, 10:21:03 AM

Title is:
Australian
Copper (Bronze)
Coins
1911 - 1964

Including All Dies &
Die Pairing

Also Varieties & Errors
Intermediate Standard

There is no ISBN I can see.

Fordprefect · January 08, 2014, 11:01:45 AM

Thanks for that info Mister T.

Mister T · January 08, 2014, 06:00:48 PM

No worries.

Mister T · January 09, 2014, 02:04:31 PM

Is the mark above the CO mentioned in the last article the raised lines between the denticles in the image?

emu666 · January 09, 2014, 02:19:28 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='37891' dateline='1387759616'
Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='37664' dateline='1387605228'
Quote from: 'robbiegal' pid='37653' dateline='1387602518'
Quote from: 'black sheep' pid='37575' dateline='1387528597'I found a 1920 double dot in one of penny sets

not bad mate
I don't believe that I have ever found one with a centre diamond

There are still plenty of them out there so I've recently discovered
I have to agree, the double dot was from a single die that struck lots of coins, probably more than the 3 English dies and dot over top combined.
Still is nice to find one, especially in a decent grade.
As for the Dot Over Top English.... I'll hold my final word until after I read Davids book.

My experience is the same as Neal's.

A few years ago at work we had a large penny (and halfpenny) hoard that was originally sourced from all around the country. Out of about 1500 1920 dated pennies, there were just 5 dot above top scroll; all of those were Indian obverse:

http://www.stuartandersen.com.au/hoard/copper.html