1920 Dot over top scroll English

nealeffendi · September 23, 2013, 10:21:41 AM

I heard from Mark at Strand coins that a Dr Brigg's recently published an article in which he claimed to have a 1920 dot over top with English obverse. Does anyone know where this article was published, who the Dr is and has the coin been spotted by anyone who can confirm the variety.
I'm 95% certain that the variety doesn't exist but then I suppose that is what was thought about the /./ English.

Steveqld · September 23, 2013, 10:34:42 AM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='29105' dateline='1379897501'I heard from Mark at Strand coins that a Dr Brigg's recently published an article in which he claimed to have a 1920 dot over top with English obverse. Does anyone know where this article was published, who the Dr is and has the coin been spotted by anyone who can confirm the variety.
I'm 95% certain that the variety doesn't exist but then I suppose that is what was thought about the /./ English.

I've never heard of the article or the Dr but there is a Dr C. Stephen Briggs with the British Numismatic Society or at least presented at one of their meetings:

Dr C. Stephen Briggs is a Yorkshireman educated at Batley and in Belfast. From 1973 to 2006 he worked for the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales at Aberystwyth where he was sometime Head of Archaeology. His interest in numismatics was begun by Graham Teasdill at Batley Museum and fostered by Michael Dolley at the Queen's University, Belfast. Now retired, Stephen divides his time unequally between archaeological research, making music, gardening, and family.

Steveqld · September 23, 2013, 03:31:37 PM

He wouldn't have been referring to a series of articles on "The 1920 Penny Revisited" by Fred Lever starting in the current CAB Magazine would he?

Basil · September 23, 2013, 09:13:59 PM

Speaking of 1920 London's,this guy is usually OK but has lost the plot with this coin.'
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Scarce-1920-Australian-Penny-no-dot-London-obverse-Fine-/290982652223?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item43bfeae93f&_uhb=1

Any thought on this interesting Coin?,all my dot under Londons have a die crack thru 'A' or 'IND' ,this one doesn't seem to have either.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-Penny-1920-Dot-Below-DBBS-Key-Date-Variety-Rare-London-Mint-Coin-L258-/141063642808?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item20d80c5eb8&_uhb=1

nealeffendi · September 24, 2013, 09:11:56 PM

Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='29121' dateline='1379916097'He wouldn't have been referring to a series of articles on "The 1920 Penny Revisited" by Fred Lever starting in the current CAB Magazine would he?

No, Fred and I am co-authors of the series. Fred doesn't know who the Dr is and also only knows of the guy from England (via Googling his name) who probably is just another Dr with the same last name.

Quote from: 'Basil' pid='29184' dateline='1379936639'Speaking of 1920 London's,this guy is usually OK but has lost the plot with this coin.'
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Scarce-1920-Australian-Penny-no-dot-London-obverse-Fine-/290982652223?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item43bfeae93f&_uhb=1

Any thought on this interesting Coin?,all my dot under Londons have a die crack thru 'A' or 'IND' ,this one doesn't seem to have either.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-Penny-1920-Dot-Below-DBBS-Key-Date-Variety-Rare-London-Mint-Coin-L258-/141063642808?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item20d80c5eb8&_uhb=1

Hi Basil
I can spot the die flaw IND on the first coin, the second coin is fuzzy at the IND but still has the rim groove above RITT. Both are therefore from the more common of the Dot Below English dies.

Quote from: 'Basil' pid='29184' dateline='1379936639'Speaking of 1920 London's,this guy is usually OK but has lost the plot with this coin.'
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Scarce-1920-Australian-Penny-no-dot-London-obverse-Fine-/290982652223?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item43bfeae93f&_uhb=1

Any thought on this interesting Coin?,all my dot under Londons have a die crack thru 'A' or 'IND' ,this one doesn't seem to have either.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-Penny-1920-Dot-Below-DBBS-Key-Date-Variety-Rare-London-Mint-Coin-L258-/141063642808?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item20d80c5eb8&_uhb=1

Hi Basil
I can spot the die flaw IND on the first coin, the second coin is fuzzy at the IND but still has the rim groove above RITT. Both are therefore from the more common of the Dot Below English dies.

Quote from: 'Steveqld' pid='29121' dateline='1379916097'He wouldn't have been referring to a series of articles on "The 1920 Penny Revisited" by Fred Lever starting in the current CAB Magazine would he?

No, Fred and I am co-authors of the series. Fred doesn't know who the Dr is and also only knows of the guy from England (via Googling his name) who probably is just another Dr with the same last name.

Basil · September 25, 2013, 08:33:37 AM

Thanks.........

emu666 · September 25, 2013, 09:16:42 AM

Quote from: 'Basil' pid='29310' dateline='1380063817'Thanks.........

David Briggs lives in Melbourne. I think he did work as a medical doctor but does so no longer.
I used to see him around quite a lot ten or more years ago. Last time I saw him was at the Melbourne ANDA fair.

nealeffendi · September 25, 2013, 10:07:42 AM

Quote from: 'emu666' pid='29317' dateline='1380066402'
Quote from: 'Basil' pid='29310' dateline='1380063817'Thanks.........

David Briggs lives in Melbourne. I think he did work as a medical doctor but does so no longer.
I used to see him around quite a lot ten or more years ago. Last time I saw him was at the Melbourne ANDA fair.

Thanks emu. Now I have an idea who to contact.
Does he post on any of the forums or is he contactable any other way?

emu666 · September 25, 2013, 10:11:02 AM

I'll see if I can get contact details.

nealeffendi · September 25, 2013, 11:05:54 AM

Quote from: 'emu666' pid='29321' dateline='1380069662'I'll see if I can get contact details.

Thanks.
If he (or other collectors/researchers) needs to email me it's:
nagbs@outlook.com

Mister T · September 27, 2013, 08:10:55 PM

Did you find out about the article?

nealeffendi · September 28, 2013, 01:08:53 AM

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='29457' dateline='1380278455'Did you find out about the article?

Not yet. I know the guy is in Victoria but I can't find the article by looking in Coin and Banknote magazine,the coin collecting blog, the Numismatic Association of Victoria Journal or the Tasmanian Numismatist. Is there anywhere else online that I should search? I understand Mark from Strand coins will be in the US for another 2 weeks so I can't get more details from him of where he saw the article. Frustrating.

Mister T · September 28, 2013, 10:40:34 AM

I'm guessing a Numismatic Association of Australia or Australian Numismatic Society article but the first only has up to 2005 online and the latter has no publications online.

nealeffendi · September 28, 2013, 07:11:33 PM

Quote from: 'Mister T' pid='29515' dateline='1380330634'I'm guessing a Numismatic Association of Australia or Australian Numismatic Society article but the first only has up to 2005 online and the latter has no publications online.

Hi Mr T
JNAA is available online until the 2010 issue and notes that the issues go online when the printed copy is available. For ANS I might have to go to the Mitchell Library as they have up to June 2013 issue.
Does anyone have Paul Hollands email address? He seems to be the most erudite of the researchers on the subject but there seem to be a few minor equivocatable points in his research in JNAA that I need to clear up.
Trying to sort out 1920 is taking me deeper into the rabbit hole of the conflicting research of previous numismatists :Alvarin_33:

Mister T · September 28, 2013, 07:27:51 PM

Ah, right you are.
pholland@thorleaf.com is given as his email at the end of the "Master dies and tools from the Royal Mint for Australian pennies and halfpennies of George V" article in the JNAA.