The Rare Coin Company debacle

[Fulvio]

And facebook is Sooo well known for it's numismatic experts ??

ROFLMAO!!::laughingneqw::laugh2::laughingneqw::laugh2::laughingneqw:

[stevo1962]

He is known for this in Facebook circles

And facebook is Sooo well known for it's numismatic experts ??

Says the expert with no facebook experience

[trout]

Why are you getting so bent out of shape for Steve?
Mrs Trout and all my kids use facebook and they all have the same opinion of it, It is full of dick heads.
You make an absurd statement by saying that APCGS graded coins are renowned for being undergraded which I obviously don't agree with and said so and now all you can come up with is personal insults and innuendo's .
Maybe you are getting ACF confused with your facebook pages.
You may be able to convince your facebook readers that APCGS coins are undergraded but you will find a far less gullible audience here.

[drakesterling]

If this "grader" sometimes overgrades and other times undergrades, then either 1) he is grading to a standard that no one here understands, or 2) he is not grading to a standard at all.

Either way, I reckon you'd both agree that you couldn't assume that his grades will cross the same to PCGS.

Eric

[trout]

If this "grader" sometimes overgrades and other times undergrades, then either 1) he is grading to a standard that no one here understands, or 2) he is not grading to a standard at all.

Either way, I reckon you'd both agree that you couldn't assume that his grades will cross the same to PCGS.

Eric

Well as this "Grader" has pretty much copied PCGS's name I would imagine that he is striving to grade by PCGS standards as well and is failing in this quite miserably :angel:

[ausjack]

He says he grades to "aussie" standards but who knows what that is because I thought that the standard was ANDA and his grading scale is copied from PCGS :blink:

If this "grader" sometimes overgrades and other times undergrades, then either 1) he is grading to a standard that no one here understands, or 2) he is not grading to a standard at all.

Either way, I reckon you'd both agree that you couldn't assume that his grades will cross the same to PCGS.

Eric

I think it's the second one Eric :dodgy: He grades according to how much he likes you so if you run a FB page and promote his rubbish you get better grades and maybe some other kickbacks like a reduced fee..who knows but there's just so much suss stuff happening it's not funny, also if he want to get a coin cheap off someone he'll grade it low so he can get it cheaper when he's shill bidding :dodgy:

[stevo1962]

You may be able to convince your facebook readers that APCGS coins are undergraded but you will find a far less gullible audience here.

I don't need to convince anybody and you can assume what you like but I know from experience how APCGS coins sit by looking at the coin.As far as facebook being full of dickheads that may be true but you will find that many of the members here are active on Facebook .It's just another way to buy and sell

[Cockatoo Coins]

I'm an admin on the largest coin group on FB, you are correct in many senses as it does have problems and has had some issues in the past. I can confirm for you 100% that EVERY admin on FNQ now fully supports PCGS through myself. Its not a forum made up of numismatic experts with 99% of these people Mum and Dad collectors (including most admins) who just want the latest new coloured coin, to them being polite is their biggest concern not having numismatic arguments they care nothing about. Attacks on grading companies albeit justified in some cases instead of empowering these collectors drives them away in droves. This is often why you find very opinionated people willing to engage in arguments removed from such groups even though they are right.
The aims of the groups are not to allow dodgy items to be sold, often I remove PMD being sold as "mint errors" or the inevitable chinese fake that pops it head up every now and then. I have even tried my best to control the cleaned garbage being sold without accurate descriptions. Am I perfect or around all the time no but a simple message and I'll usually resolve the issue.
I'm not trying to say what has happened in the past was good as it wasn't (i wasn't around as admin during those times either) but I'm doing my best to ensure the future of FNQ in particular guides collectors down the right paths.

[ausjack]

FNQ is one of the worst for dodgy deals, selling known fakes and shill bidding so if they were fairdinkum the offenders should have been booted but they're still there as they are "highly respected" members :dash1: But most of the FB pages are the same and a lot have the same admin running different pages and you'd think there were lots of people on these pages but like most forums etc there's only a few that are regular buyers and sellers and some people work that out and that's why they don't go back and why people still use ebay. I think people just want a good place to sell but it's hard to find because they all have there own problems and drawbacks.

All admin say they're trying their best (and a very small percentage are) but most are just there to sell their own coins and if you say anything to upset them they soon kick you off and there's a lot of infighting and that's why there's so many different pages now and that's good in some ways but then bad in others. I wonder how many pages there'll be in a couple of more years, the way it's going there's be over 50 because so many have popped up in the last 12 months it's not funny.

The thing that really annoys me is that people take notice of the nobodies that wouldn't know their head from their arse and when the people that have had years and years of experience get shunned and shot down so you find these people don't comment or help much any more but then who'd blame them.
Oh and the admin on FNQ knew about the fakes and especially the shill bidding but as they didn't want to upset the "trusted" members they just hushed it all up and to this day they still say they have it under control but they don't want to lose face so it's easier to delete posts and boot members.
I think while ever they hide the truth people will get disheartened with collecting once they work out the truth and this isn't good for the hobby in the long run.

[Cockatoo Coins]

I'm assuming you havent been a member on FNQ for some time? Alot of the offenders you speak of were outcast from FNQ a while back hence why there are multiple groups popping up, most of these arose due to the selling conditions on FNQ no longer being favourable audiences to their selling practices so they have had to go out and create their own groups to continue selling their items.
As for the nobodies unfortunately you will never be able to stop every one of the 10,000 plus members we manage from speaking (if you have a way by all means I'm open) and understand that is why alot of knowledgeable people no longer comment. They do however still talk to us via messages and we in turn deal with the issues on a public front.

I can assure you in my time as admin I have pulled up trusted members, admin you name it. I couldn't give two rats who's name is at the top, if the coin doesn't pass mustard I'm onto it like a fat kid in a cake shop. My role is to protect buyers not the interests of the sellers no matter who they are.

[trout]

In an ideal World facebook would be a fantastic resource for collectors, It is however Not an ideal World.
We all know that eBay is Not the "Perfect" venue to buy and sell But for all its faults it is streets ahead of gumtree or facebook because the buyers Are protected to a good degree and much of the "RatBag" sellers get removed eventually, Some do slip through the cracks but like I said eBay isn't Perfect.
There are No REAL checks and balances on a facebook page as anyone can create one and install themselves as "Admin" without spending a cent or have any liabilities, Unlike when an internet forum is created where there are costs, maintenance/upgrades and legal obligations to be considered.
Facebook is also a perfect place for the dodgy coin dealers/sellers that have been evicted from eBay to operate as well as the inexperienced or dodgy ones that insist that the shed jobs they have for sale are the real deal.
Yes there are NO fees selling on facebook But there is also absolutely NO protection for anyone who gets Ripped off either.

There are probably more newbie collectors that read the facebook pages than there are that are members of forums like this one which is a real shame because the new collectors are the most vulnerable to being Scammed and on ACF the advice given isn't "Slanted" towards a sale or to promote any member in particular and if there is something dodgy being promoted here it doesn't have a very long Shelf Life.
I strongly advise any of our new collector Members here to ask questions on this forum about any purchase they are considering be it an eBay or facebook offering that they have any concerns about instead of just believing what they are told on a facebook page.

[Cockatoo Coins]

Trout we have Verified Current Photo ID of every member allowed to sell on our facebook group, this has meant a reduction in fraud to one case in the past 6 months or so which after their details were handed to the police was sorted extremely quickly, i'm betting that's a better per transaction rate than you would get from Ebay. Also all our transactions can be done through paypal to give a buyer perfect protection if they feel the need or haven't dealt with that person before.

[trout]

Using Photo ID to determine a members "Bonafides" over the internet is not a guarantee the ID matches the member because you can't actually see the face of whoever is producing the ID to determine if in fact they own it, Photo ID gets stolen all the time from people. :angel:
I admit it is far better that nothing though :ok:
Personally I wouldn't hand over ANY of my personal details to a nameless and unverifiable entity on facebook or any internet site.

[Cockatoo Coins]

If the name on the licence or photo doesn't match photos of them in their facebook account they have to go further to be allowed to sell aswell. Its only if you wish to sell aswell and then if you say no you are still permitted to buy just not sell, often this scares away those wanting to be dodgy but also alot of those who dont feel comfortable sharing their ID which in this day and age is understandable. Its just the best method we have found to keep the dodgy people at bay

[ausjack]

I'm assuming you havent been a member on FNQ for some time? Alot of the offenders you speak of were outcast from FNQ a while back hence why there are multiple groups popping up, most of these arose due to the selling conditions on FNQ no longer being favourable audiences to their selling practices so they have had to go out and create their own groups to continue selling their items.
As for the nobodies unfortunately you will never be able to stop every one of the 10,000 plus members we manage from speaking (if you have a way by all means I'm open) and understand that is why alot of knowledgeable people no longer comment. They do however still talk to us via messages and we in turn deal with the issues on a public front.

I can assure you in my time as admin I have pulled up trusted members, admin you name it. I couldn't give two rats who's name is at the top, if the coin doesn't pass mustard I'm onto it like a fat kid in a cake shop. My role is to protect buyers not the interests of the sellers no matter who they are.

Yes you would be right because I got kicked off for having a go at the owner for stealing pic's from ebay and not giving credit where due so I was and am actually happy not to be there with scum like that and as for this other total BS about getting rid of the bad eggs why is a "grader" still there after he got busted shill bidding and another that sold a known fake as that person was sprooking at an ANDA coin show how they just bought a fake and was going to put it straight on FB and they did, admittedly they did give a refund but only because the buyer was well know and nothing was done to either member as they're all good mates as you well know now being an admin and they all sick together and cover each others backs and that's just two examples, that they don't like people knowing or talking about.

If you can sort them out like you say you are I wish you all the best and rally hope you can but just a word of warning is to watch your back as they'll soon boot you to if you unset the apple cart too much.

Using Photo ID to determine a members "Bonafides" over the internet is not a guarantee the ID matches the member because you can't actually see the face of whoever is producing the ID to determine if in fact they own it, Photo ID gets stolen all the time from people. :angel:
I admit it is far better that nothing though :ok:
Personally I wouldn't hand over ANY of my personal details to a nameless and unverifiable entity on facebook or any internet site.

I'm the same and prefer not to deal than to risk having my details all over the net and with the amount of FB account constantly getting hacked there's even less chance of me handing over my details. They think and say the people have authority to gather these ID's but under what law and what recourse do people have if their ID gets stolen from these people if they get hacked and don't say it can't happen as I got hacked about 12 months ago and it happens all the time.

Trout we have Verified Current Photo ID of every member allowed to sell on our facebook group, this has meant a reduction in fraud to one case in the past 6 months or so which after their details were handed to the police was sorted extremely quickly, i'm betting that's a better per transaction rate than you would get from Ebay. Also all our transactions can be done through paypal to give a buyer perfect protection if they feel the need or haven't dealt with that person before.

That's one case that they might know of, what about the one's they don't because not everyone complains and if you know the right people getting a fake ID isn't really hard from what I hear.

Using Photo ID to determine a members "Bonafides" over the internet is not a guarantee the ID matches the member because you can't actually see the face of whoever is producing the ID to determine if in fact they own it, Photo ID gets stolen all the time from people. :angel:
I admit it is far better that nothing though :ok:
Personally I wouldn't hand over ANY of my personal details to a nameless and unverifiable entity on facebook or any internet site.

Yes I agree

If the name on the licence or photo doesn't match photos of them in their facebook account they have to go further to be allowed to sell aswell. Its only if you wish to sell aswell and then if you say no you are still permitted to buy just not sell, often this scares away those wanting to be dodgy but also alot of those who dont feel comfortable sharing their ID which in this day and age is understandable. Its just the best method we have found to keep the dodgy people at bay

There are many people that don't have or like putting pic's of themselves on FB and two I can think of straight up are Belly and Peter Andrews but they're well known and I totally trust them as they're two of a very few that I buy off so matching pic's and licences doesn't sound right and honest people don't always like becoming well known and showing their licence to unknown entities that run these pages. I don't like having pic's of myself of FB so there's only one or two so does that make me bad or a criminal because I'm a bit reserved?? Most people on here and FB know who I am and once we're friends I don't mind but there's a lot of freaks out there that I don't want them to know who I am and I bet there's lots of other that think the same way :winkextra:
Oh and you won't find many pic's of the owners of this forum either and I can understand and don't blame them but they are well known and greatly trusted as are so many others that don't share pic's.
I'm more worried about all the charity stuff they do on FB pages because you don't know if the money is going to where it should as there's been a few beauties where they've made people feel uncomfortable for not giving and then to find out the person was a fraud so there's a few things to be very sceptical of on FB.