The Rare Coin Company debacle

[trout]

he was a very busy man at the start of this year because he had a large volume of grading to be done.

Crikey the back shed must have been "Chokker" :laugh2:

[ausjack]

Yes FB is a very strange place to say the least and so many scumbag and parasites on there it's not funny and yes they do promote and cover each other something chronic.

Fifteen years ago the scammers were on Ebay (remember Seb and his "germ UNC" coins)? Now the scammers are moving into the newer selling forums, since Ebay is basically dead for quality coins.

The sad thing is that, like Gresham's law for social media, the bad guys drive out the good guys, and all that's left are the bad ones. I know for a fact that, at least on one occasion, an experienced and trustworthy numismatist was kicked out of the group for pointing out all the scams.

Eric Eigner

Yes very true Eric and I have noticed quite a few very experienced people that I have a lot of respect for due to their vast coin knowledge either don't or very rarely comment any more due to tossers that think they know when in fact they know sweet FA :dodgy: It's a shame but like you said this is what happens when the bad guys drive out the good.

since Ebay is basically dead for quality coins.

There are still some quality coins and sellers on eBay But it is like looking for a lost sovereign at the local tip to find them, You have to dig through so much garbage to find them :angel:

FB is no different :dodgy:

Just MO but i think Ebay is the best(and fairest) its ever been at the moment,the PayPal refund with dodgy deals is the best improvement along with the seller not being able to leave negative FB.
FB & Gum Tree are scammers paradise at the moment,similar to Ebay in the early 2000's,welfare types spending all day dreaming up new scams instead of getting out and getting a job.
As mentioned earlier there are lots of networking with many of the Coin guys on FB,bidding up each others Coins to ridiculous prices and leaving glowing messages,makes it hard for the genuine FB Coin Sellers trying to get a foot in.

Spot on Basil, funny how a "grader" can have a couple of ID's and shill bid but nothing is done and they still promote and say they don't, it really is a very bad joke and especially for newbies and in the long run this will just drive people from collecting as they get burnt and then think all these people pissin in each others pockets saying how good one and other are is a good place to stay away from.

Got to love the "trusted seller/buyers" crap :dash1: There's only a few people I buy off because the rest can't be trusted :@

From many of the comments here on the actions of F.B. groups, it's no doubt an understatement to say there is some dodgy activity happening. As for myself, I can't offer an opinion as I make a point of not getting involved with social media, apart from the odd post here on ACF.

As suggested in an earlier post by Eric, there appears to be a decline in the  quality of ebay listings over time which I'm thinking may be the result of disillusionment for some, and the source of disappointment for many. Not knowing anything about how one would go about setting up a platform on Facebook, or indeed wanting to myself, could this be an option for those here who sometimes voice their disapproval of dodgy deeds. This way the roles could be reversed where they would be in charge of activity, admissions and dismissals :diablo:  It makes sense that an ethical and trusted group would survive and grow.

I read recently where there are approximately 8 million coin collectors in Germany, so based on our relative populations, you would think there should be at least 3 million or so collectors in Australia.

Yeah there's a few people on some of these groups auto but to me they're not really collectors as they ask stupid question about roadkill coins and don't listen to the experienced people so they ask a few lame questions and then never to be seen again so some of the pages that have over 8 thousand member might have a dozen regular members the regularly post and might have one or two that do know what they're talking about.

As for starting your own page yes it seems pretty easy but then you have to filter out all the scum so I don't know if its worth the trouble and one of the reasons why there's so many pages now is because the "admin" (they call them selves this to feel important) fight a lot behind the sense so next minute there's another page so in the last twelve months or so there's been a major influx of pages but like previously mentioned it's the same names on a lot of these pages and some promote other pages they like and bag out others they don't like and this also isn't good for the hobby.

There are still plenty of good coins to be had on ebay and to a large extent facebook.In fact I can easliy buy coins on facebook and flip them for 10 times what I paid but you have to keep your eyes open and try to look at all listings as there is more competition these days and I know of plenty of ebay/facebook buyers and sellers that do it for a living and do quite well out of it. It just depends on how much effort you put into it

I'm glad you have better eyes then me Stevo because on both ebay and FB some of the pic's are so poor sometimes it's hard to make out it's even a coin at times but I have seen some of yours and you've done alright but then how many duds have you bought.

It cracks me up how people will get asked on FB for a better pic so yet again they stand on one side of the room and take a pic of a coin that's on the other side and then say "is that better" my god I laugh and then they say "that's the best I can do with my mobile" but then others can use mobiles and take pretty good pic's, well they can be recognised as coins :winkextra:

Fifteen years ago the scammers were on Ebay (remember Seb and his "germ UNC" coins)? Now the scammers are moving into the newer selling forums, since Ebay is basically dead for quality coins.

The sad thing is that, like Gresham's law for social media, the bad guys drive out the good guys, and all that's left are the bad ones. I know for a fact that, at least on one occasion, an experienced and trustworthy numismatist was kicked out of the group for pointing out all the scams.

Eric Eigner

All online communities are dictatorships, this forum is no different and neither are Facebook groups.  All you can hope for is a benevolent dictator.  A well known tool of non-benevolent dictators is suppression of  dissenting opinion.  Given that almost all the bigger FB groups are being run by stooges of a well known Australian "grader" who is hanging off of the coat-tails of PCGS or by group admins using them to make money it's no surprise so many of the groups have non-benevolent admins and suppress dissenting opinions.

Personally I find reading some of the FB groups a huge exercise in frustration being unable to offer up my own opinions.  But I'd rather be in the group reading what is going on than be tossed out and having no idea.

That all being said I hope I am more of the benevolent type of overlord.  Now all of you bow down before me.:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

:laugh2: a bit of an understatement Mark but yes full on dictatorships, but this one isn't too bad, mainly 'cause PP keeps you in line :mocking:

I don't know how many fights I've had because of someone riding on the coat-tail and they all come to his rescue and I'm the bad guy for picking on him and they say you can ask question and he says it as well but when you ask things like how many people he has grading for him he get admin like on "the gravy page" to delete the comments and they say they're not in his pocket, yeah right pull the other one :dodgy: Anyone questioning him or admin soon get banned so that's anther reason why there's so many coin pages now. Now I prefer to get kicked out because I know that you can't win a fight with an idiot :blink: and especially those sorts.

You're using the term "grader" rather liberally there, I can think of a few more choice terms that might be more apt.

Yes I couldn't agree more Walter :good: "grader" what a joke, copy paste everything from a big company and they say it's your own grading scale etc and that's why he sends his good coins to be graded a pcgs and down grades some of his customers so he can buy them cheap :dodgy:

I don't think the spam filter on the forum will allow me to post my real opinion.  So I'll stick with "grader" in quotes.

Yes it will Mark, just try it :angel: :laugh2:

But I'd rather be in the group reading what is going on than be tossed out and having no idea.

That all being said I hope I am more of the benevolent type of overlord.  Now all of you bow down before me.

You have far more tolerance than I do, and my hat's off to you for it. :hi:. I'm too old for that BS, so I call a spade a bloody shovel, and get turfed out for it. Their loss, not mine.

Bow down? You're kidding right? Read the above. :angel:

But I'll happily sit up in the peanut gallery and throw Jaffas down at you if you like.

:agreed:
I like places like this where we can fight about some things but then agree on others but FB is a different kettle of fish all together because they get the poops and then if they aren't admin and ban you they try everything they can to get you banned.

If you've got the Jaffa's covered what can I get :angel: :mocking:

I am only a member of one coin forum on Facebook although I have not sold anything through it or purchased anything from it. I have noticed that the grader is also a member of it. Apparently he was a very busy man at the start of this year because he had a large volume of grading to be done.

HA, he tells so many porky pies it's not funny, I wonder if he was grading coins when he was at the horse races down south somewhere earlier this year because it was quiet and he didn't have much on :dodgy:

I'll have to keep an eye out for you SD :good: But your probably a member of one of the one's I'm not :winkextra: There's actually a few members from here on there and most of my friends on there are from here :friends:

he was a very busy man at the start of this year because he had a large volume of grading to be done.

Crikey the back shed must have been "Chokker" :laugh2:

:laugh2: got it in one trout :good:

No they all say on FB that he's a legit business, but no one gets to see this "legit" business so to me that's pretty suss to start with :dodgy:

[runway]

Yep there has been many

[ausjack]

Sorry for going :off_topic: please forgive me :beg:

One last thing for this rant is there's a couple of pages that annoy me by saying you must send them a copy of your licence to buy and sell and that one of the admin has authority to do this, so I wonder what authority he has :scratch_one-s_head: No I'm not sending a copy of my licence to ANY of them and they didn't like it when I said many FB accounts have been hacked so what happens to this info if theirs does.

[frenc11]

I am only a member of one coin forum on Facebook although I have not sold anything through it or purchased anything from it. I have noticed that the grader is also a member of it. Apparently he was a very busy man at the start of this year because he had a large volume of grading to be done.

this is a conflict of interest and could lead to overgrading to sell for bigger profits

[stevo1962]

He is actually notorious for undergrading but you do have to look out
 for the occasional overgraded coin and with a coin grading panel of 1 person
 it would be hard to get it right

[runway]

Well said ausjack

[trout]

He is actually notorious for undergrading but you do have to look out
 for the occasional overgraded coin and with a coin grading panel of 1 person
 it would be hard to get it right

What grading company are you talking about here Steve?

[spraggdean23]

He is actually notorious for undergrading but you do have to look out
 for the occasional overgraded coin and with a coin grading panel of 1 person
 it would be hard to get it right

What grading company are you talking about here Steve?

He is talking about Apcgs.

[kchan1111]

He is actually notorious for undergrading but you do have to look out
 for the occasional overgraded coin and with a coin grading panel of 1 person
 it would be hard to get it right

What grading company are you talking about here Steve?

He is talking about Apcgs.

Who is this one man grading panel?

[robbiegal]

lots are members here too

[trout]

He is actually notorious for undergrading

I have to disagree with you Steve, Old Mate at APCGS is renowned for his overgrading and for grading problem coins.
I call BS on him being "Known" for undergrading.

[nealeffendi]

He is actually notorious for undergrading

I have to disagree with you Steve, Old Mate at APCGS is renowned for his overgrading and for grading problem coins.
I call BS on him being "Known" for undergrading.

Having seen a number of APCGS coins I'd say that most are overgraded but a number are significantly undergraded. A cherrypicker could easily get a bargain on the undergrades.......except most APCGS coins are overpriced and the undergrade is thus priced at its true grade price.

[stevo1962]

I call BS on him being "Known" for undergrading.

He is known for this in Facebook circles
Try sending some of his slabs to PCGS and you might
change your mind.But then again if you cant grade the
coin for yourself in the first place you wouldnt know what
is undergraded or what is overgraded

[trout]

He is known for this in Facebook circles

And facebook is Sooo well known for it's numismatic experts ??