Fabricated or real error?

[trout]

Read the entire thread and tell me exactly where I have defamed anyone, I have asked for opinions as to the legitimacy of this "Error"
That is not grounds for a defamation case.

[markn]

OK, trout says the capsules can be opened, Serial says they can't.  We get it.  I'm not inclined to destroy a proof set to determine the truth but perhaps someone else (not trout or serial) is willing conduct an experiment in the interests of forum harmony?

And back to the coin in question, I have no idea if those capsules can be opened or not but that coin looks like it's been in acetone.  The ruined mirrors on the obverse are something I've seen (and caused) by the use of acetone several times.  Perhaps the seller isn't aware of how it can be done?  

No more arguing or this thread goes poof.

[serial]

I am currently pulling a spoiled 04 proof set apart . Will be giving the $1 coin a bath in acetone tonight and will post results. I will also go into town at look at the actual set to see if there is any signs of tampering. As you can see I have a set to compare it to and have shown pictures of it.
I will make my final decision based on evidence not uninformed opinion

[markn]

I am currently pulling a spoiled 04 proof set apart . Will be giving the $1 coin a bath in acetone tonight and will post results. I will also go into town at look at the actual set to see if there is any signs of tampering. As you can see I have a set to compare it to and have shown pictures of it.
I will make my final decision based on evidence not uninformed opinion

Sounds great, let us know what happens!

[Fulvio]

I will make my final decision based on evidence not uninformed opinion

Awesome! Exactly what we need. :heart:

[trout]

I will make my final decision based on evidence not uninformed opinion

I await with baited breath your "Unbiased" opinion and BTW I have used acetone to remove the colour from RAM coins in the past so my opinion is NOT uninformed :ok:

[Fulvio]

baited breath

Sounds fishy. But then, it would, wouldn't it, fish boy? :dodgy::angel:

The word you want is 'bated'. :taunt:

[trout]

The word you want is 'bated'

You are indeed correct But I like mine better, "Bated" sounds like a cricket or baseball bat is involved :angel:

[serial]

I will make my final decision based on evidence not uninformed opinion

I await with baited breath your "Unbiased" opinion and BTW I have used acetone to remove the colour from RAM coins in the past so my opinion is NOT uninformed :ok:

sorry didn't realise I was wasting my time and coin , could you please just put up pictures of the 04 proof you removed the hologram from so I wont need to put up any more pictures of my one
in the mean time I will try to inform the uninformed with the following pictures knowing yet again your "misrepresenting" the truth to put it nicely and have never removed the hologram from an 04 proof
I am also still waiting for you to prove that a coin can be re sealed in a broken open capsule without any signs of tampering, something we disagree on as per markn's post, pictures would be nice.
in the mean time I will explore what a coin looks like with its hologram removed

The doomed proof set

the coins broken from their plastic prison

the $1 coin in its bath


I will dig out a $1 capsule I have broken open previously to remove a proof for grading to prove my point and will update pictures of the soaking $1 coin in the morning after I take my son to baby rhyme time

[Fulvio]

put up pictures of the 04 proof you removed the hologram from

That's not what he said. And you know it. Please stop baiting.

He said he's removed paint from coloured coins, not a hologram. Similar results, but given that Acetone dissolves paint whereas it likely only softens glue, its not identical.

As for the effect on the metal finish, that would depend on what contaminants are in the acetone. If it were 100% pure and uncontaminated, there should be no ill effects.

[trout]

The seller pulled the listing down yesterday.

[spraggdean23]

I was wondering about how easy it is to break open proofs set because I got a few from America recently. I was looking at the 10c coin in the 1978 set I got and it has a tiny error on the reverse. Must have been struck with a tiny piece of cotton on the die or something. The set came with the foams, the mint certificate and it does not appear that the sonic seal has ever been broken.

[Fulvio]

I was wondering about how easy it is to break open proofs set

Pretty much impossible. Ultrasonic welding heats the contact point between the two halves, and they fuse into a single piece. So you can break it, sure, but you can't put it back together and get away with it.

Some more recent issues aren't welded though. If its a press-fit capsule, its just a matter of applying enough force without marking either half. Difficult but not impossible.

[trout]

This pretty much takes care of where to get a replacement capsule for a dollar coin can be obtained.

 https://eshop.ramint.gov.au/Coin-Capsule-1/6760386.aspx




I also have a spare 2004 hologram MOR that I am more than willing to send to Markn for testing in acetone to get a truly unbiased opinion as to if the hologram can be removed.
I could easily do it myself But that wouldn't be perceived as being unbiased.

[Nevol]

This pretty much takes care of where to get a replacement capsule for a dollar coin can be obtained.

Be a bit pricey after they add their $10 Minimum Postage. OK I guess if you've got some other things to chuck on the order and spread the cost.