Pre decimal value - where is it heading?

[trout]

does Hong Kong PCGS grade differently?
should we be sending our stuff to Hong Kong?

I'll let you know when my last submission comes back

Why did you send them to Hong Kong and not to California ?

[stevo1962]

does Hong Kong PCGS grade differently?
should we be sending our stuff to Hong Kong?

I'll let you know when my last submission comes back

Why did you send them to Hong Kong and not to California ?

Sent with Michael Cotton and at $20 per coin cheaper I thought I'd give him a go

[trout]

Sent with Michael Cotton and at $20 per coin cheaper I thought I'd give him a go

So how much per coin are we talking here and how much were you paying before?
When I send my own in to PCGS it usually costs me on average $25 per coin for Modern's and $30 per coin for World Economy.

[robbiegal]

maybe postage too

i would be concerned about the reliability of the postal system in Hong Kong

[trout]

maybe postage too

i would be concerned about the reliability of the postal system in Hong Kong

I get quite a lot of my cheap electrical fittings and stuff from China, Anderson plugs and the like and the postage from there is actually faster and more reliable than Aus post :ok:
I would be far more concerned about the grading standards from the PCGS Hong Kong office.
You may get a generous grade but once someone looks up the cert# and sees the twin slab images they will know where the coin was graded and value the coin accordingly :ok:

[kchan1111]

You may get a generous grade but once someone looks up the cert# and sees the twin slab images they will know where the coin was graded and value the coin accordingly :ok:

Hey trout, what are the PCGS cert numbers allocated to HK office?

[nealeffendi]

You may get a generous grade but once someone looks up the cert# and sees the twin slab images they will know where the coin was graded and value the coin accordingly :ok:

Hey trout, what are the PCGS cert numbers allocated to HK office?

The allocated numbers will come in handy if PCGS edits the images (either retrospectively for existing images or as a procedural change for future images) so that they are indistinguishable.
Perhaps Walter or another dealer should let PCGS management know that HK has a public perception problem with loose grading standards. Once a company loses its reputation then it is hard to get it untarnished.

[trout]

Hey trout, what are the PCGS cert numbers allocated to HK office?

I think that the cert# are automatically generated from the main database for both California and Hong Kong and are indistinguishable.

 

The allocated numbers will come in handy if PCGS edits the images (either retrospectively for existing images or as a procedural change for future images) so that they are indistinguishable.
Perhaps Walter or another dealer should let PCGS management know that HK has a public perception problem with loose grading standards. Once a company loses its reputation then it is hard to get it untarnished.

They had better do something pretty fast because there is NO way I would put my money down on a HK graded coin unless I saw it "In Hand" at the moment.
If PCGS just change the imaging format for HK graded coins to match what is coming out of the US then every newly graded PCGS coin will then be suspect.
The ONLY way that this can be addressed is for EVERY HK graded coin to be recalled and regraded to the standards that are applied in the US.
Before anyone jumps down my neck telling me this is all BS, Have a real good look at the stuff coming out of HK lately and then get back to me :ok:

[spraggdean23]

I had a really good look today at the pre-decimal coins that were recently graded. Before you say that the Hong Kong coins are overgraded do the research. I spent three or four hours today going through the cert numbers one by one using the cert verification on the Pcgs website. From all the coins I went through from the particular seller who has had these coins graded in Hong Kong the high grades were few and far in between and it was also quite easy to see when he had sent full or part rolls of certain dates in. For example he looks to have sent in a full roll of 1948 shillings and the highest grade he got for that particular date was MS64. If you added up all the grades and got the average the average grade received would be quite low. There was even a decent amount of pre-decimal coins that did not even make MS for example coins like a 1957 shilling in AU58. I am not really interested in slabbed decimals so I just stuck to the pre-decimal coins. I did come across some Indian coins graded MS66 red however I can't remember what they were and my head is still sore from typing numbers over and over again.

[trout]

MS64 for a 1948 shilling is not too shabby But regardless of the grades achieved were they accurate ?
Just because a submission doesn't get super high grades doesn't amount to much, It all depends on what coins were sent in.

[spraggdean23]

For the coins I took a good look at like some 1961 and 1963 halfpennies the grading seemed accurate although there was some spotting on some of the copper coins which is probably normal though.

[trout]

I haven't really looked at any of the predecimal stuff coming out of Hong Kong so I don't have an opinion either way with those.
A lot of the decimals recently graded there give me cause for concern though.
I have 23 registry sets of PCGS graded coins and many others that are not in sets and if the standards are slipping with the coins getting graded at Hong Kong So will the value of my collections go down the gurgler with it.

[nealeffendi]

MS64 for a 1948 shilling is not too shabby But regardless of the grades achieved were they accurate ?
Just because a submission doesn't get super high grades doesn't amount to much, It all depends on what coins were sent in.

For 1948 shillings a MS64 grade is pretty ordinary (it is the most common grade with 54 slabbed at that level), if that is the best a roll gets then I doubt the roll was overgraded. If it is the cotton coins coming out of HK then I've purchased a few of them and have not been disappointed.
Perhaps it is more a problem with decimals?
I do wonder why they show the coins in the slab when you check out their numbers on PCGS lookup. Surely they took hi-res images for their "fingerprint" scans of all pre 1965 coins?

[trout]

Despite the pitting and corrosion on the rims and this being a Specimen coin this was graded MS68.
This is not a HK graded coin , this was graded in the States.
   

[drakesterling]

I would be very reluctant to second-guess PCGS and their grading without seeing lots of Hong Kong coins in hand to make a judgement. Moreover, they rotate the graders between the three grading venues, so you have the US graders in Hong Kong from time-to-time, too. I haven't seen any evidence of overgrading by one office over another, in any case, and I find it hard to believe PCGS would jeopardise their reputation in doing so.

There's lots of talk in the media of being in a "post-truth" world, with conspiracy theories and BS being spread all over the internet. I'd hate to think that some of that is leaching into this forum too.

I have to accept in the first instance that PCGS grades coins accurately, in general. It's easy to look at a couple of coin pictures that "don't look right" and make a quick, uninformed judgement - but I don't think it's wise to blindly believe all these conspiracies, such as PCGS overgrades for bulk submitters, or Hong Kong overgrades, or big dealers get "special grades". We have to let that go, because if rumours are left to spread, it could undermine PCGS and the numismatic community in general.

Eric