1933 Half-Penny Overdate ??

[Basil]

This is another rare version of the 1933 Half,completely different Die to the 'double 3' type.I have a couple so will throw up the Pics. while i have it out,tip poking out of the top loop.




   

[serenitystan]

For anyone interested i have added 6 more Pics. to my 11-02-20 Post.
I dusted off my self standing Pro. Scope to have another look before storing the Coin.
It clearly shows what looks like the top tip of the 2 poking out of the re-entered 3,so it well maybe a clumsy attempt to obliterate the remains of the 2.

Hi Fred,just throwing it out there,i don't have a firm opinion either way,any chance you could post up Ian McConnelly's  CAB article from 2007, very similar Coin to those posted in this Thread,he left out 3 over 3 which it is but as i said was it a crude attempt to obliterate the top loop of the 2 or for some other reason?

Stan...
There is a Book on the Sydney Mint i read back in the 1960's,lots of Pics. but where to find it these days would be a task but it would still have a 'Dewey'(?) No.

https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=4530&highlight=sydney+mint


This is a Photo of a Royal Mint reducing lathe and a couple of others that don't have tags.







https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=4530&highlight=sydney+mint   Thanks Basil..Great pics..Check out the air-conditioned ceilings...

[serenitystan]

The only way to confirm/refute the overdate is to find a couple of die markers on this coin and then search a few hundred other '33s to find more examples. If it is a genuine overdate then the other examples will also show the same defect in the top of the 3.

Thanks Uni,its similar to the one my Brother has,Pics.earlier this Thread but his has a bit of a tip,mine seems to have remnants of a tip.
The eg in the Victorian Museum(Thanks Walter) has a defined tip(see Pic.) but surely there are more out there somewhere as its a circulated Coin.     Hi Basil, The Vic Museum eg with the defined extended tip,could be there first attempt at removing the 2..Yours with the remnants of a tip could be there second attempt at removing the 2..There must have been more than one master for the 33-od...How many working dies can be made from a master???.Just speculating   :scratch_one-s_head:

Basil, Re #54 and extra pics.
The thing I used to have mid brain arguments about are those tip bits sticking out of a 2 or 3 on a "overdate".
In short,  they may be a left overs from a digit change on die or hub, BUT, they may also be a stress line from the end of the digit in the die splintering off the field leaving a further gulley  "spike". Thus a normal digit may have a pointy bit sticking out of it.
The proof of this line of thought is to do what normal people don't do, look at other dates than an overdate for spiky bits.
I should follow this up myself, but the short answer is YES there are dates with spiky bits from worn dies but I have not documented it.
The really glaring example of this is a coin with a die crack from a digit point  to the rim. We have all seen those. That's the mark of a stress leader leaving a visible result!
Fred.

[fred lever]

Re #75
Basil, I checked my 2007 CAB issues for Ian's articles.
Could not find any article refereeing to 3/2 halfpennies.
Bad news i'm missing the March and October issues and i'll bet its in either of those!
Being  a bad librarian i have not replaced them with a "missing issue" filler.
 I must have pulled those issues out to research, something put them somewhere else.............
Does anybody have March and October 2007 to check on Ians article?
Fred.

[fred lever]

RE #76.
Basil that bit sticking out of the 3 looks more like a die chip adding a bit of length to the loop.
Not a hub or punch episode to me.

Re the photos in the factory:
I worked in places like that!
Took me right back, no guards on spinning bits, pushing stock by hand TOWARD  things that would kill you dead, dirt and junk everywhere, "natural ventilation",  Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, the memories.
None of that OH&S crap, in those days we got things done, todays workers are woosses!
They get a paper cut in the office and have 2 weeks off with counselling, poor babies.
Sorry.
Fred.

[Basil]

RE #76.
Basil that bit sticking out of the 3 looks more like a die chip adding a bit of length to the loop.
Not a hub or punch episode to me.

Fred.

No worries Fred,just putting it out there,only been looking for them since McConnelly's article was quoted on Stamp Forums around late 2007(?).Since then i've only found 2 with this tip,so very rare i would say,after saying that they will probably turn up everywhere..LOL.

[Basil]

Quote "Hi Basil, The Vic Museum eg with the defined extended tip,could be there first attempt at removing the 2..Yours with the remnants of a tip could be there second attempt at removing the 2..There must have been more than one master for the 33-od...How many working dies can be made from a master???.Just speculating   

Hi Stan..that's what a local Dealer said a few years back,clumsy attempt to erase all remnants of the 2,its not a double strike or similar as only the last 3 is affected in the date.He was au fait with the 33 Half O/D and said he checked all his Coins for it since they turned up in Melb.,he had never never seen my eg with the tip however. 
 As i posted earlier i'm surprised that more egs of the Melb. Museum Coin haven't turned up as it was taken from Circulation.

[serenitystan]

Quote "Hi Basil, The Vic Museum eg with the defined extended tip,could be there first attempt at removing the 2..Yours with the remnants of a tip could be there second attempt at removing the 2..There must have been more than one master for the 33-od...How many working dies can be made from a master???.Just speculating   

Hi Stan..that's what a local Dealer said a few years back,clumsy attempt to erase all remnants of the 2,its not a double strike or similar as only the last 3 is affected in the date.He was au fait with the 33 Half O/D and said he checked all his Coins for it since they turned up in Melb.,he had never never seen my eg with the tip however. 
 As i posted earlier i'm surprised that more egs of the Melb. Museum Coin haven't turned up as it was taken from Circulation. :i_agree:    But since the Museum 33/2 has been found,everyone with a 33 half penny that has a slight variation of the last 3,calls it a overdate...There's not argument regarding the 22/1,34/3 threepence,25/3 1/- and the 33/2 penny as you  can clearly see two numbers....Very hard to prove it's an overdate without defined remnants of the original number...Don't know Basil..Maybe the mint just got better at removing the 2 with each master and ALL 33 half pennies with slight variations of the last 3 are overdates...... :scratch_one-s_head:

[Basil]

Quote "Hi Basil, The Vic Museum eg with the defined extended tip,could be there first attempt at removing the 2..Yours with the remnants of a tip could be there second attempt at removing the 2..There must have been more than one master for the 33-od...How many working dies can be made from a master???.Just speculating   

Hi Stan..that's what a local Dealer said a few years back,clumsy attempt to erase all remnants of the 2,its not a double strike or similar as only the last 3 is affected in the date.He was au fait with the 33 Half O/D and said he checked all his Coins for it since they turned up in Melb.,he had never never seen my eg with the tip however. 
 As i posted earlier i'm surprised that more egs of the Melb. Museum Coin haven't turned up as it was taken from Circulation. :i_agree:    But since the Museum 33/2 has been found,everyone with a 33 half penny that has a slight variation of the last 3,calls it a overdate...There's not argument regarding the 22/1,34/3 threepence,25/3 1/- and the 33/2 penny as you  can clearly see two numbers....Very hard to prove it's an overdate without defined remnants of the original number...Don't know Basil..Maybe the mint just got better at removing the 2 with each master and ALL 33 half pennies with slight variations of the last 3 are overdates...... :scratch_one-s_head:

Ian McConnelly put his reputation on the line by saying the variety with the rentered 3 was an overdate but the jury is still out as can be seen by the reluctance for collectors to buy(or collect).
The re-entered 3 variety are only a small % of 33 Halves and the variety with the tip showing is also very scarce,in the 13 years i've been looking i've found 2 and our local Dealer has never seen one and he's been sorting 33 Halves since the kerfuffle in Melb. in the early 2000's but obviously they had been ID as a Coin of interest before then.

Interesting subject/Coin for those who are interested in the machinations of our glorious Mints.

Edit..i've just been told the original 33 half O/D article by McConnelly was CaB  July 2003,if anyone has a copy, after some Melb. Dealers started having a close look at the Coin in the early 2000's.
Undoubtedly its ID-ing probably goes back well before then and got got a revival when the Internet started.

[fred lever]

Hi All and Basil yep page 11 of july 2003 "the 1932 penny overdate and its little brother" so the index says but its on page 7.
Ian wrote a couple of pages regarding  both with some pix of both.
Collector "Barry" had sorted a bunch of halfpennies  and sent an example of the odd date 3 to Ian to have a look.
Ian then wrote out his thoughts on it and sent that off to the editor.
Fred.

[Basil]

Thanks Fred,Ok we are back at trying to get the standalone article from 2007.

There was some sort interest in them by Melb. dealers in the early 2000's,must have been a Trade/ANDA thing as i didn't see anything on the net until 2007/8.

[Basil]

. :i_agree:    But since the Museum 33/2 has been found,everyone with a 33 half penny that has a slight variation of the last 3,calls it a overdate...There's not argument regarding the 22/1,34/3 threepence,25/3 1/- and the 33/2 penny as you  can clearly see two numbers....Very hard to prove it's an overdate without defined remnants of the original number...Don't know Basil..Maybe the mint just got better at removing the 2 with each master and ALL 33 half pennies with slight variations of the last 3 are overdates...... :scratch_one-s_head:

Don't underestimate the 1925 Shilling,the egs. that showed a clear 3 were sought after back in the 1960's but demand and interest has dropped off these days.

[Unicorn]

Excellent work Basil, that photo is so clear! :good:

[autocoupler]

Thanks Fred,Ok we are back at trying to get the standalone article from 2007.

Basil, the article is in volume 10, number 2 - page 38 March 2007.

I'll try and copy it and send to you later. Not sure how CAB would feel if I posted it here?

[Basil]

Thanks Auto.,let me know when you can get a scan and i'll give you my Email.
I have read it before,10 years ago,but don't remember much except the Pic.