Australasian Coin & Banknote Magazine

[fred lever]

Basil and all, just as a teaser here is the conclusion of a developing article of mine on the 1930.

"Conclusion, When and Where.
When. The 1930 specimen coins were minted in August 1930. From a known number of twelve selected, six were issued and are accounted for today, the rest are not accounted for.
The 1930 dated productions coins could have been minted between August 1931 and June 1932, which was the end of the production run of the 1931 dated coins.
Being only several thousand in number they just disappeared into the mix of millions and millions of pennies in circulation.
Apart from the Museums, the Numismatic Associations that existed, in the 1930's and a few motivated private collectors, the fact that 1930 pennies existed was unknown and not notable in the 1930's.
The pace picked up once the scarcity was realized aided by the hobby of coin collecting moving into popularity with the post war boom in the late 1940's.

Where. The question of distribution is simple speculation.
The whole 1930 production could have resided in one bag in a delivery crate so the whole of production could have been sent to one destination. Therefore, and this is pure speculation, such a delivery could have been to the Commonwealth Bank in George St, Sydney and that may explain why the 1930 penny   seemingly   was "found" and promoted in the Sydney area first."
End of conclusion.

That woolly speculation is simply why the type of research that Basil is doing is so important, where he can get FIRST HAND the recollections of someone in the trade nearer to the era than we can get to by just researching papers, journals and so. Download his brain Basil before he leaves us!

The simple truth, I feel, is just what I sum up in that conclusion, there is no mystery to find because there is no mystery, they just made them and delivered.
The actual balance of pennies in the Mint stock fell from about 2.5 million in 1929 to zero or a small deficit in 1934 (Briggs research) so by that time, no penny with a date previous to 1934 was available from the stock. Production picked up post 1934 and a positive stock balance existed until 1937 where they scaled back production and holdings of 1936 dated coins.
That anticipated the big Kahoona change in 1937 and the rest as they say is History.

Fred.

[nealeffendi]

Oh Fred, please do your research first, there is a statue to literary critic Northrop Frye in Canada. (just messing with you Fred :shout:). But it is OK for Fred and others to make quick comments on the forums about stuff and not be fully accurate; but when articles and research papers are published they should be critiqued, fact checked and proof read prior to publication. Sure CAB and ACR are not formal research publications, but "facts" published in them are used both as references in other articles and as selling points for "rare" coins.
Galls me (and Basil and probably most of us) when mintage figures are plainly wrong or just guesstimates without the authors of such mintage tables adding warnings and qualifiers to the numbers.

[nealeffendi]

As for the 1930 penny, the Melbourne museum had seen an example or 2 in 1940, Nobles auctioned a 1930 some years back where the vendor stated it had been collected by his father in 1938 on the Glenelg tram and in Sydney a dealer was advertising to buy them in April 1945 and obtained a number of them. So 3 different states prior to wars end and with over 1200 minted that is more than one mint bags worth. Plus assuming the striking was done not as a commercial run but just dribs and drabs as dies were tested it is possible handfuls could have ended up in any number of bags and released over a couple of years in different states.
BTW how is it physically possible for mint stocks to get to a small deficit by 1934 Fred? Sounds like the stocktake figures had acquired a rounding error over the years that would require slightly more coins to have been struck than counted. Out by a few bags of pennies with millions minted would be easy unless every blank was counted, every misstruck penny chucked in the reject pile also counted and any taken for examination also accounted for.

[fred lever]

Yes, Neal, very funny,  I was not providing a research paper in my post #154!
You will all note the word "speculation" where I am waffling.
The other dates and figures are well known and reported by researchers all the way from John Sharples in JNNA's to Bill Mullett private, et al, well before Fred Lever even thought about a 1930 penny.

Upcoming in ACR will be an article by me on the appearances and mentions of the 1930 in, professional journals, in newspapers and in the ACR / ACB magazine series. 1960's to today.
There is nothing new in that article just a long list for researchers to refer to, gathered into one place.
I did that article prior to the not yet written article whose conclusion is in #154.
Yep, starting with a conclusion this time and then refuting/ proving anything i write.
Almost like being a professional rather than an amateur!
David Briggs has done a massive amount of work on the VR Mint records concerning everything from weights of metal used, discs produced and quantities of coin, costs and a lot more.
I am trying to absorb this and really am off the pace, we all have a lot of catching up to do, once Dr. Briggs completes the next issue of "Pennys".

Cheers, Freddo.

[fred lever]

Anyway, the point and subject of this thread is the NEW MAGAZINE.
I made some comments on this thread as a first reaction.
Now that users of this forum will have a copy, what is your reaction to the form and style of the mag?
I had a swipe at the binding and font being a bit set in my ways about  readability of research documents, but thats just me.

Regarding the contents, well its a good read just like CAB.
News, a look at the coloured  two dollars (not my cup of tea but i'm coming around) a slew of articles from K Rodgers and T James, Sally Lovegrove looks at more coloured  RAM issues.
Andrew Crellin updates the 1930 penny story, Stephen Jones starts a series on the "Kangaroo Office" and as John used to say "much much more".

So, all I know from this web site so far is Fred has got a copy, Neal has got a copy and Basil will give it a look.
Thats not much data.
How about the rest of you?
I will do an article on the changeover later on this year and need education from all you forum members, say, how the CAB magazine was going and how does this continuation look so far?

Fred.

[autocoupler]

Hi Fred, I stopped buying CAB a year or more ago because as I saw it, there was a lack of Australian coin content. I'm not interested in banknotes, foreign coins, ancient coins, shiny bower bird glitter from our mints or stories about historical goings on around the planet, all of which was the main focus of the magazine in my opinion. 

Some issues it took a really hard look to find just one article of interest to me, I couldn't see any value in the magazine and stopped buying it. When I first discovered CAB in 2003 it was always a month's eager wait until the next issue.  

I attempted to present an article of my own on one occasion, it obviously didn't cut the mustard and that's ok, but received no reply indicating why. I hope they made good use of the USB stick.

Another thing which got up my nose was how the editor didn't rerun articles from earlier years. This would make sense to me particularly when you consider there would obviously have been an incremental take-up of the magazine by readers over time who potentially would never get to see earlier works which most probably would have been on file in some form or other. 

Just one old work of interest per issue would have done nicely, as opposed to buying back issues with even more uninteresting content. 

I hope the new ACR is able to produce a more balanced offering.   

Anyhow, that's just the view of an increasingly cranky individual, but stick by what I said.

Cheers

[nealeffendi]

Hi auto. Yes I agree about the frustration of few pre decimal articles in CAB. As for recycling old articles it won't be necessary if you choose the archive article option with ACR mark 2.0. I'm looking forward to reading some of the issues that I missed buying.
If you still have a copy of your rejected article then why not post it in this forum? Might not be quite polished enough for CAB or of too niche a topic for a mainstream coin mag. But it might be fascinating to pre decimal fanatics like myself and others. That applies to everyone, this forum has gone a bit dormant with little added to the coin wiki in ages. Same with uploaded photos and whatnot.

[fred lever]

Thanks Auto, thanks Neal, more please!
Fred.

[Basilstate]

Hi Fred..picked up a copy on the W/end and a professional,good quality paper,magazine.
Still working my way thru the articles but so far so good,probably have to wait a year or 2 to give it a rating.

Crellin's article on the 1930 was interesting and well written,i agree with his time line,'finds' before the 1940's are hearsay and can't be verified(so far) but something may turn up in an old newspaper or the like in the years ahead.
I think he might have a couple of things slightly wrong however,the 1930 was mentioned(vr..very rare) in Heyde's book that was published in 1944 and Heyde owned at least 2 egs back then.I read,IIRC, he found them in 1942/43.

US Dealer who i purchased Oz Coins from sent me a signed copy of his book,it was the US Numismatic. Assn Library copy,he purchased it at Auction and thought i may like it.May be of interest to collectors down the track.

[nealeffendi]

The Heyde book is interesting for what it doesn't include.
1919 .//.
1942 I missing I (in the mid 40s it was rated as rare as the 1930)
Also no English or Indian for any year, dropped and normal 1, short and long denticle Indian pennies and halfpennies and the 33/32 overdate penny.
Any chance Basil if you can recall where you have read 1942/43 as the years he found 2 of them? Did he find them himself or did he buy them. If he did find them the odds are he found them in the city or suburb where he lived or worked.

[nealeffendi]

Also, the ACR article has an image from the 1945 of the society minutes of Fleming showing his 1930. It mentions the Heyde had since obtained one. That makes it unlikely that he had one until April 1945.
I should also add I have a copy of "Coins" and the front cover displays 1945.  So perhaps Heyde wrote his preface in 1944, then the booklet was published in 1945? Could the tables have been finished in 1945 and if so why is the latest issue date for any denomination 1943 (excepting 1944 for P and M pennies).
In addition IIRC there was a limited and controlled supply of paper during the war so it is possible that this booklet was only published after August 1945 (maybe well after). Might explain the tardiness of sending Basils copy until Feb 1947.
I am disappointed that the ACR article does not have a reference list at the end. Besides the specifics of the articles cited it is also possible to see the many references not cited. For example were the society journals besides the Fleming 1945 example checked? Why no mention of the reported 1938 Glenelg find and clearly the author was mistaken is writing that little was written about the 1930 penny until the mid 60s boom as i know of a dozen references by 1960.

[fred lever]

Neal,
Re the references, see page 84.,
References 1 to 16 expanded.
A bit odd to put refs separately but probably due to pressure.

Guys the April issue is near the printing stage, I had the pleasure of viewing a draft layout simply because I have a article embedded.
More comments please on this thread about the mag.

Fred.

[Basilstate]

Hi all...the key is the NSW Numismatic Society newsletters from 1944 on.Apparently references almost monthly on the 1930 and this went on until the 1960's.Sounds like Crellin has found some,hope he shares.
I read(in the 1960's IIRC) where Heyde found a couple of 1930's in Sydney early 1940's,but perhaps they belonged to someone else and he just photographed them for the NSW NS.,not sure,more research and verification needed.
I'll throw this in whilst i have the PDF  out,from Heyde memoirs,first told in 1942 about the Coin but i can't find where he obtained them in 1942/43.
'' Some sixty years later Gilbert Christoph Heyde wrote in his memoires:
The 1930 Penny: About 1942 Sydney Hagley told me there was an Australian 1930 penny, and he had been shown one. The Mint said that none had been made or issued that year.
Both these two statements were written some years after the event, which would account for their inaccuracies. This is not unusual when trying to recall years later....."

Aust. Coin Review Article..Ref. at end.

https://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/blog/news-research/commonwealth-coins/australias-1930-penny-why-is-it-our-nations-most-p/

[nealeffendi]

Hi Basil. Heyde was the guy at NSNSW who put in the newsletter that he had since obtained a 1930 penny. So  just in the days or at most weeks following Fleming displaying his example until Heyde printed off the newsletter is the period he obtained it. Recalling details years/decades later for his memoirs is where the inaccuracies arose.
Hi Fred, back to critiquing ACR;  found that reference page, not sure why it needed 16 reference points for 12 references. I wish there was a reference to where Heyde obtained 38 of them from Raymond, I know there is a photo where someone (Heyde?) had 7 examples on his hand, but 38? Did Raymond get that many through his shop?
I also find it hard reading the articles as the font is not bold enough. Considering the average age of collectors the editor might need to make the letters darker (that or I need to buy reading glasses).
Also in the 2022 CAB index there is a Sedge Tailed Eagle 2oz gold article, what is a sedge tailed eagle? (is it a fat finger typo as the S key is below the W?) Typos were an issue in CAB, hope it doesn't carry over to ACR.
And does the CAB list alphabetical order need to have the same article by Tony James in 2 places? (under both Abyssinian and Ethiopian). Surely those interested in Abyssinian anything would also check under Ethiopia?

[fred lever]

No need to go to specsavers yet Neal. I'm having the same trouble.
The readability of type is a whole subject in itself!
I read a pretty good discussion of this (no i don't have the reference!)  by  the editor of Silicon Chip.
He discussed  why they selected the font/size used and why the type of paper used.
Their  font is easy to read and stands out from the rather matt  surface ( reflectivity) of the paper.
SC is a tech heavy mag where they are transmitting IDEAS and FACTS and the last thing they want readers to do is struggle to read the page under all lighting conditions.
They rarely lay text over colour  for instance.
 
ACR is more an INFORMATION mag but still needs to follow the basic editing to readability principles.
Now i'm starting to sound like I know what I'm talking about and a f---know all.
I thought a lot about font and binding when producing my book on coins.
I used 100gm matt white page paper, whatever font was in Word and spiro bound 200gm covers with clear protectors and  the thing lay flat when opened.
That was ok for an amateur home printer but commercial printing is a different ball game with a different cost structure.
I had to give the thing away and put it on CD, the amount of information would have filled 1000 pages in the end.
Stop whining Fred!

  The new ACR will find out just why the old magazines had a slew of editors, sub editors, fact checkers, legals, that sort of thing you just cannot have  nowadays for a viable monthly low circulation mag. Different if you are a daily news paper. Or a yearly Journal, those should be absolutely impeccable in fact checking and references.

I'll stop mouthing off.

Fred.