finders keepers

[ausjack]

:agreed:

[robbiegal]

yeah
i'm talking about work OH&S

where the plumber sends the 16 year old down the tunnel/trench and then within minutes you have a 16 year old trapped under a ton of soil getting brain hypoxia and then the tradie threatens the kid if he tells them that he told him to go into the tunnel

and there are so many more
most of the deaths locally here are very often the 15-19 year olds
no experience, trying to earn some dollars and being killed on the job by scum of the earth tradie bosses

yeah, common sense can prevail but some young fella is often just doing as he's told and trusting the uninsured adult who is doing the telling

where I grew the miners were often getting blown to bits through unsafe work practices, so we knew quite a few family men who were family friends
and they were blown to bits with shrapnel injuries and the like
ending up being young men and near cripples

my own father was involved in a serous mining accident in the 50's in the same mine -  7 years in the army, did the whole WWII service and gets stuck underground in a work accident - not a bloke without common sense I assure you

so it happens

nothing to do with stuff like smoking or getting pissed at the local after work and then driving home  ............

anyways, the off topic police will be cruising soon so i'll quit before the nannies come after me here! ha ha

my dad used to be a funeral director, he tells us stories about the nasty things he saw. he has always said that forensic science has its pros and cons (I really want to become a forensic scientist). I recently finished a forensic course at school a few months back enabling us to practise all the techniques used.
P.S favourite show: NCSI

you can do degrees in forensics now Cooper
I have a friend who did it
and she liked it

NCSI is a bit over the top
a lot of that testing equipment stuff doesn't really exist
but it gives the role a lot of glamour and makes you think about how the clues are connected (I used to really like that TV how House for the same reason - I'd try to diagnose the patient if I could before the show ended! maybe i'd get 1 out of 20 ha ha)

[ausjack]

yeah I was one once RG, I was bought up that you do as your told and that was at work as welland the ADF dill it into you as well..we had work ethics back then too, shame the employers didn't and still don't other wise we wouldn't have so much trouble

[Fulvio]

NCSI is a bit over the top

"NCIS? Is that like CSI?"

"Only if you're dyslexic"

Name that quote...

[ausjack]

this is my post and I really don't care if they go off track just as long as I get my questions answered

[robbiegal]

people here are talking about the Sydney Harbour Bridge coin

16 men died building that bridge
 
my (step - from Mums' second marriage) sisters' grandfather died building that bridge
the 'good old days' weren't exactly the peaches and cream that we might chose to think they were

I have a form of industrial deafness from factory work when I was younger - why? cause I was stupid? - no,  I had to work or starve - who wants a 'dole bludger' in the family?

in my books - It might be seen as a nannie state but OH&S keeps more people safer in the work place and longer in the work place

[Fulvio]

in my books - It might be seen as a nannie state but OH&S keeps more people safer in the work place and longer in the work place

Uhhuh.. except that in the real world, employers only care about money. So they get around the laws by moving production offshore. To third world countries where people work 19 hours for $2 a day, get locked in and die when buildings burn down and they can't get out. All in the name of retail therapy and profits.

Meanwhile, back home, people who can't shift offshore, like self-employed small businessmen, end up shouldering massive expenses which ultimately drive them out of business, benefitting those who went offshore.

Nobody would argue against exploitation being a bad thing. But so are blanket rules that do more harm than good.

[ausjack]

I don't know RG, not long ago..only a couple of years, they extended our shopping centre and a mate of mine died and workcover did their thing AFTER being warned by employees that something was going to happen and the death so next thing a few people were moved on so all was good and nothing ever happened to the employer so really what's the point in some of these laws and places that are menat to protect us when they take kick backs so everythinggets swept under the rug..yeah I hear ya about the old days but if they built the bridge to day it would never get done but if the old blokes had just the saftey equipment they have today would have made a big difference..it's a tough one this one as ya damned if ya do and damned if ya don't, I honestly don't know what the solution is but as most this in Oz we seem to go from one extreme to the other and never seem to find the middle ground.

Eg me, I could see that something needed to be done about people being able to rip off employers and do the wrong thing but where they stuffed up was that they put people like me "injured worker" in the same boat so I got FUBR because of bastard employees that couldn't be sacked for doing the wrong thing and the worst thing is that ther was no compo no come back no nothing..meant to get part pay till retirement but insurance just cuts you off so forced on to DSP and never to work and too hard to get super ALL BS. There is so much no one knows about unless it happens to someone you know like me and even no some people think things are great Oh and I'd have to lie if I did get a job and then with this stupid net I got screwed again because you put my name in and I'm a test case so you can't lie as they can sack you straight away for it so what is one to do as I was 33 when it all fell apart and I lost pretty much everything and now trying to find my way and try and make some sort of life but it is just so hard in these days..but I'll get by

[trout]

in the day it was just called common sense No OH&S or any of it as people didn't seem as stupid

:yeah_what_she_said:

RG, its not about stopping exploitation. That's always a good thing, and the bastards who put people at risk should be flayed alive, IMO.

Rather its about the state forcing ME to do/not do things because it MIGHT endanger MY safety. Its MY life, and as long as what I do doesn't impact on others, I and ONLY I, should be the one to make the judgement call on how I live it.

However there are many ways in which the state and its agencies and proxies attempt to control what we do with our lives. Much of it may well be based on good intentions, like stopping people smoking for example. But at the end of the day, if I want to take a risk its my business, and everybody should just butt out. Freedom is fragile enough without being eroded away by misplaced good intentions.

Here Here Mate, I am SOOOO sick of the "Big Brothering" going on today.
Crikey IF I choose to do something a little dodgy or dangerous it is up to me as far as I am concerned :ok:

[Fulvio]

Crikey IF I choose to do something a little dodgy or dangerous it is up to me as far as I am concerned :ok:

Reading these last two comments brought to mind a video shot by a crew climbing a 1,600' radio mast to replace the warning light on the top.

No safety harnesses. Why? Because that would slow them down too much, so they only tie off for rest stops. Sure, they might slip and die, and it does happen, albeit rarely. But they choose to freeclimb, because its the only way to get the job done.

Same deal goes for iron workers on skyscrapers. A lot of the work just can't be done efficiently, or even at all, if they follow the book. So they choose not to.

That's the real world. Life is dangerous. Get over it.

[ausjack]

yeah seen that Fulvio and it's pretty amazing alright and something I would have done..and would love to jump off just have to watch the cables

and to those that have my full name just google and you'll see what I'm talking about, you'll find me in/on the 'workers compensation commission' nsw gov site, so how can you lie to even get a job..everyone should be so careful as apparently I'm there for ever

[Fulvio]

apparently I'm there for ever

Look on the bright side... surely its a cheaper/better memorial than some chiselled granite in an overgrown plot somewhere, no? Heck, you can't even guarantee your final resting place is forever nowadays. They only rent you the spot for 25 years.

[ausjack]

the ocean will always be there for me mate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A19q7rysLs

[robbiegal]

yeah AJ
I thought that you had been and are still going through a rough trot with a work accident

years ago when I did night factory work our only OH&S was through the union and once I had been sacked for walking off the job due to ammonia gas exposure (night shift)

got put back onto day shift after the (white) boss had a chat to me about the incident

night shift had highest productivity - why - no downing tools
so the islander and Asian women and the old one or two white women like myself were threatened if we asked for stand down due to heavy ammonia gas leaks (regular as well)
working hard and breathing in ammonia gas

the last time & only time I walked - the night shift supervisor said to me - robyn if you walk through those doors to wait for the gas leak to stop then i'm sacking you
I said to her well, ** sack me mate cause i'm over this BS
all the coloured women went white with fear of losing their jobs too

day shift - ammonia leaks - everyone outside until it's fixed
with the union guys and the DPI around at days - the conditions were
completely different & yeah - productivity was lower due to worker safety obligations

anyways, the good thing was that the boss made well for better night time conditions and the nasty little supervisor was demoted for standover tactics

there is a real difference between choosing to do dangerous stuff at work to being bullied and threatened into engaging in dangerous practices

Crikey IF I choose to do something a little dodgy or dangerous it is up to me as far as I am concerned :ok:

Reading these last two comments brought to mind a video shot by a crew climbing a 1,600' radio mast to replace the warning light on the top.

No safety harnesses. Why? Because that would slow them down too much, so they only tie off for rest stops. Sure, they might slip and die, and it does happen, albeit rarely. But they choose to freeclimb, because its the only way to get the job done.

Same deal goes for iron workers on skyscrapers. A lot of the work just can't be done efficiently, or even at all, if they follow the book. So they choose not to.

That's the real world. Life is dangerous. Get over it.

i don't entirely agree with that -
"That's the real world. Life is dangerous. Get over it"

adrenalin junkies love to get paid while they do dangerous stuff

and they do come to grief as well - I read about them all the time as my son loves to follow them and I get the latest update of who ploughed into what wall - ha ha

[ausjack]

there is a real difference between choosing to do dangerous stuff at work to being bullied and threatened into engaging in dangerous practices

Yes couldn't agree more RG :good: I've worked in many places like that and it's not good and my work thing is all over that's why I'm on DSP, the insurance company just cut you off after a few years so what else is there to do as there is no legal recourse so I'm stuck in limbo, just wish I had a longer working life before it all went to hell So it's not so much the rough trot RG but that I don't want to see others end up like me as it's only bringing us down and we'll end up like the US.

So when you think that from my early thirties until retirment age I was suppose to get half pay from the insurance so there was over $769600 plus any increases plus they paid medical, travel and a few other expenses so that saved them heaps cut cutting us off and put the burdon straight onto the tax payer but it's ok as they appear as thought they couldn't give a toss and I wonder how many others there are out there like me and I was one of the lucky one's that did get part compo as I know of people that hurt their backs in private industry and shown the door and that was it..food for thought :winkextra: I will never vote liberal again as they CAN'T be trusted, not that the other lot are much better so it's all a joke so I just try and laugh about it or I'll break down and :cray: Sorry for my rant peoples but thank you for taking the time to read a part of my tale of woe :hi: