finders keepers

[Fulvio]

less commonly than in the general population.

The community's standards differ though when it comes to officialdom vs the bloke next door. We expect a much much higher standard from those who guard us (in both senses of the word), and perhaps foolishly have zero tolerance in matters of honesty.

Therefore one crim in uniform tends to tarnish the whole lot.

Suffice to say if *I* were handing anything in, I'd document it exhaustively. Names, numbers, witnesses, camera crews, the whole ball o' wax.

[nealeffendi]

I'm not sure why you think dishonest cops are the exception, it is a coin forum so I won't go in to things that a few ex cop friends have told me.

I didn't use the term dishonest because it means different things to different people.  For example if you take the company car down to buy your lunch is it dishonest, put in an exaggerated overtime claim, if you take a false sickie or take a biro from the stationery cabinet?.

My phrase was "misappropriate property" ie outright theft in the context of knocking off something of value that you don't have an entitlement to.  It happens but very infrequently and, I suggest, less commonly than in the general population.

My father is a retired private detective, worked lots of fraud cases and worked with many cops. He used to go out with them and whenever a body was found (car crashes and crime victims) the cops regularly pocketed any cash found on the victim.
Corruption is so endemic in the police that honest people usually don't last. At the old Redfern Police Academy they even had a policy of weeding out honest recruits (set up an impropriety, then see who reports it, they were canned as they could not be trusted to not dob in their colleagues). That was back in the day of Mr 10% (premier Askin), things are not much better (I had lunch last week with an ex cop who turned States Evidence against other cops a few years ago, in his opinion most cops are lower than kiddy fiddlers). My friend (when he was a cop) was a dealer and a pimp to boost his income.

[Steveqld]

Same can be said for many professions.  Eg Politicians taking kickbacks, lawyers touching their trust accounts, Doctors receiving benefits to prescribe specific drugs.  Where there's a will, there's a way.  

I would hope the anti-corruption watchdogs would be more of a deterrent but at the moment I think they are just highlighting the problems.

Queensland was certainly up there with the worst of them in the early 90's when the Police Commissioner was jailed for corruption.  We should also draw a distinction between organized rackets and the individual acting of their own volition.

less commonly than in the general population.

The community's standards differ though when it comes to officialdom vs the bloke next door. We expect a much much higher standard from those who guard us (in both senses of the word), and perhaps foolishly have zero tolerance in matters of honesty.

Therefore one crim in uniform tends to tarnish the whole lot.

Suffice to say if *I* were handing anything in, I'd document it exhaustively. Names, numbers, witnesses, camera crews, the whole ball o' wax.

I would as well and that has brought a few undone over the years.  Bit harder when they swap the diamond in the found ring for a bit of paste from costume jewellery.

That "uniform" is a very important and danger aspect of policing.  People don't see the individual, they see the uniform.  If they have had a bad experience then all cops are bad.  Alternatively if the uniform gives a direction then they are listening to the uniform not the individual.

Despite the number of  substantiated criticisms over the years the policing profession still rates highly in the community.  I think generally the public is prepared to accept minor misconduct to offset the perceived danger and hardship from the job.  People want to respect their police.  They don't have a lot of other people to go to when they need help.

[Fulvio]

People want to respect their police.

Absolutely. But its hard when so many things conspire against it. Individual corruption, laziness or insensitivity. Systemic failures. Political interference. Even inadequate remuneration. All play a part.

And respect is so fragile. For example I once made the point to a policeman friend of mine that after being caught in an obvious setup at a stop sign, I lost a lot of respect for both the police and the road laws.

Its a very fine line between a well protected, safe community and a totalitarian police state. And in many parts of the world, that line's well and truly already been crossed.

Anyway, we seem to have hijacked yet another thread. :dodgy:

[robbiegal]

interesting read
i'm ok with the on topic nature of the potential off topic content
but my opinion is that it's more on topic as the thread posed the question in general around honest behaviour
the stories explore the reality of what some folks have done, the stories that they have been told and the age old question of whether you can really trust your local policeman or priest
 
i'd reckon AJ would have nil complaints
I wanna work at a recyclers place now!

[Fulvio]

I wanna work at a recyclers place now!

You probably don't... its not all red carpets and champagne, y'know..

[robbiegal]

yeah
i'd hate to do my nice nails in - it's been a long hard road to get them this long

maybe i'd have to wear 5 pairs of leather gloves
a gas mask
and a very thick scarf for my hair

can you wear 5 inch pumps at a recyclers?
might be an OH&S issue?

ha ha

[ausjack]

how bout cut the nails get a peg for ya nose and shave ya head and you'll fit right in and have no worries about oh&s

yeah that's right Fulvio, the carpet need a clean and the champagne is hot and not to mention the flies

[Cooper S]

I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now

[trout]

There are a few areas around the Northern Territory that the "Land Based" fishermen/Women try their luck for Barra and always tend to get their lures stuck in the bushes or roots in the creeks.

I used to borrow my Mates dog and go in and retrieve these lures to replace some of the ones I had lost at low tide.
Defiantly a "Finders Keepers" scenario :ok:

[Fulvio]

I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now

This reminds me of a TED talk that Mike Rowe gave a few years ago. Search for it, its one of the most awesome half hours you're ever likely to spend.

Anyway, while working on Deadliest Catch, he was on deck lashing down pots and nearly got washed overboard by the huge seas. So he went to see the captain. The conversation went something like this....

"Captain, OSHA?" (OSHA is the US OH&S authority)
"OSHA? Ocean" pointing to the waves "Son, I'm the captain of a crab boat. My responsibility is not to get you home alive. My responsibility is to get you home rich. You want to get home alive? That's on you."

"So for the rest of that day? Safety First!"

Point is we're too quick to hand off responsibility to others. As if wrapping yourself in the nanny state's security blanket somehow makes your life better. Well, it doesn't. It just adds complexity and stops you taking responsibility for your own actions, and in the end costs us all dearly on many levels.

[robbiegal]

I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now

clever possum
yes where I work it is now wok safety
but we still all call it OH&S

I don't think its called OH&S anymore im pretty sure its workplace safety now

This reminds me of a TED talk that Mike Rowe gave a few years ago. Search for it, its one of the most awesome half hours you're ever likely to spend.

Anyway, while working on Deadliest Catch, he was on deck lashing down pots and nearly got washed overboard by the huge seas. So he went to see the captain. The conversation went something like this....

"Captain, OSHA?" (OSHA is the US OH&S authority)
"OSHA? Ocean" pointing to the waves "Son, I'm the captain of a crab boat. My responsibility is not to get you home alive. My responsibility is to get you home rich. You want to get home alive? That's on you."

"So for the rest of that day? Safety First!"

Point is we're too quick to hand off responsibility to others. As if wrapping yourself in the nanny state's security blanket somehow makes your life better. Well, it doesn't. It just adds complexity and stops you taking responsibility for your own actions, and in the end costs us all dearly on many levels.

well
tell that to all the dead workers who have died doing what some irresponsible boss has made them do
and all that the poor blighters are often wanting is a day's pay to feed a family

I have seen too many in the hospital who (have survived) & were usually young and simply doing what they were told and even then the mongrel boss would come in and threaten the poor little beggars to keep mum about the incident  

we also have a couple of friends who have died on their jobs - just simply doing what some irresponsible boss made them do

OH&S is really important and NOT a nanny state but a social responsibility to send people home form work to their families and not to the local morgue waiting to be ID'ed by the wife or parent

[ausjack]

in the day it was just called common sense No OH&S or any of it as people didn't seem as stupid :winkextra:

doesn't matter how many names they give it it's still a joke and more is common sense and just looking..how the hell did we ever survive with out all the BS and going off the last 10 years where will they be in another 10..sort of glad I can't work any more with the way things are go..gone are the days

[Cooper S]

my dad used to be a funeral director, he tells us stories about the nasty things he saw. he has always said that forensic science has its pros and cons (I really want to become a forensic scientist). I recently finished a forensic course at school a few months back enabling us to practise all the techniques used.
P.S favourite show: NCSI

[Fulvio]

in the day it was just called common sense No OH&S or any of it as people didn't seem as stupid

:yeah_what_she_said:

RG, its not about stopping exploitation. That's always a good thing, and the bastards who put people at risk should be flayed alive, IMO.

Rather its about the state forcing ME to do/not do things because it MIGHT endanger MY safety. Its MY life, and as long as what I do doesn't impact on others, I and ONLY I, should be the one to make the judgement call on how I live it.

However there are many ways in which the state and its agencies and proxies attempt to control what we do with our lives. Much of it may well be based on good intentions, like stopping people smoking for example. But at the end of the day, if I want to take a risk its my business, and everybody should just butt out. Freedom is fragile enough without being eroded away by misplaced good intentions.