The slabbing thread

trout · July 22, 2013, 09:45:28 PM

Take a look at this listing, the grade is BS and who the hell is Dominion Grading Company.
The listing is by bobby131313 and I think this is the founder of CCf's eBay id . I sincerely hope I am wrong with this because I have spent a few years on his site and if this is true then to me the whole site is crap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Australia-Coin-1915-Silver-Threepence-3-pence-3d-Choice-VF-Detail-Low-Mintage-/370841000525?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item5657d89a4d
I have questioned Bobby about this on CCF, wonder how long it takes me to get put in the naughty corner for a month ?

Fulvio · July 22, 2013, 10:10:46 PM

http://blog.davidlawrence.com/index.php/dominion-grading-service-explained/

"We're NOT a major third party grading service and we aren't trying to be. DGS is the in-house grading service for DLRC and we invite submissions from collectors, as well. Typically, we grade (in house) those coins that are circulated, or light clean mint state,etc that we feel PCGS and NGC don't give enough credence to. Or coins in which we see no advantage to PCGS or NGC holders."

http://www.coinlink.com/News/general-collecting/dominion-grading-service-dgs-to-discontinue-slabbing/

"As for DGS, we simply do not feel that there is enough demand for collector coins at this time to merit our further investment. We have discontinued grading at DGS at this time. If you have DGS-graded coins to sell, please offer them to us for sale. We remain committed to the quality and standards of our grading at DGS and we still make two-way markets in DGS-graded coins."

trout · July 22, 2013, 10:20:13 PM

I have NO idea what you are saying Fulvio Mate But.

Sounds like Bobby has already started a US APCGS , Bloody idiot.
I find it hard to believe that he could stoop so low as to overgrade coins ,slab them and use the good name he has developed on CCF to sell crap :dash1:

Fulvio · July 22, 2013, 11:11:50 PM

Quote from: 'trout' pid='22557' dateline='1374497413'I have NO idea what you are saying Fulvio Mate But.

Did you follow the links?

"About John Feigenbaum
As president of David Lawrence Rare Coins, John Feigenbaum has over 32 years of professional numismatic experience. John's began collecting coins as early as age 5 when he started attending coin shows and club meetings with his father in southern Florida. He has also written, The Complete Guide to Washington Quarters (1993) & co-authored The Complete Guide to Certified Barber Coinage (1994). A graduate of Virginia Tech, John took over the reins at DLRC in 1996 when his father, Dave, was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's Disease. Today, technology is a focal point in growth of DLRC and John spends most of his time with IT development as he leads DLRC and other partnerships in the development of coin-related web sites and mobile applications."

Unless Bobby is John, he's just a customer of DGS, or bought a coin from someone who was. DGS is no longer operating, and hasn't been for years.

So what exactly are you all worked up about?

Sapyx · July 22, 2013, 11:35:25 PM

Dominion Grading Service was the outfit which bought out PCI when that company went bust back in 2008, if I recall. PCI was one of the few "second-tier" grading services - not as widely respected as the Big Three, but not basement slabbers either. I'm not sure if DGS lasted long enough for it to acquire any particular reputation, but it didn't last long; their Google-fossilized homepage says they stopped accepting coins for grading in 2010. They simply couldn't fight eBay's refusal to recognize them as a legitimate TPG.

Do a forum search over on CCF for either DGS or the full name and you'll find plenty of threads about them.

As for their opinion on this coin, well, it is what it is. I know it wouldn't grade that high here in Australia, and I know a top TPG wouldn't assign a grade due to the cleaning. But a coin graded VG-8 in America wouldn't have this much detail surviving; I've seen coins given a VG grade by the top-tier TPGs which I personally wouldn't assign much above "Poor".

trout · July 23, 2013, 06:38:17 AM

QuoteSo what exactly are you all worked up about?

when I read that listing I felt like I had been kicked in the guts by my best friend .
I hold Bobby and Susan in the highest regard and am horrified that they could list such crap.
Subtlety is a gift a never received and when I see something wrong I will always speak up :ok:

wwwww · July 23, 2013, 08:09:41 AM

What's the problem? You could probably get that into a PCGS or NGC VF30.

Don't judge the entire coin by the band of the crown.

Nevol · July 23, 2013, 08:14:22 AM

QuoteI hope this isn't Bobby from CCF

Sorry to say but it definitely is Bobby from CCF.

trout · July 23, 2013, 08:32:49 AM

Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='22566' dateline='1374532781'What's the problem? You could probably get that into a PCGS or NGC VF30.

Don't judge the entire coin by the band of the crown.

I sincerely doubt that Walter.
I put it to you that this well and truly scrubbed coin would come back in a "Details" slab Ungraded :ok:
What is upsetting is after all the bagging over the years regarding Basement slobbers and when Bobby puts one up it is considered "Kosher", give me a break a spade is a spade regardless of who is holding it.

coxspau · July 23, 2013, 08:42:02 AM

Well, everyone else is wading into this discussion, so I might as well.

Credit to him, he does mentioned that the coin has been cleaned.

However, to grade the coin VF is a bit of a porky. Perhaps US coins are graded differently than AUS coins, although I had always been under the assumption that the F/VF/EF/UNC grades were universal.

If that is VF, then I need to go back and regrade all my pre-decs.

Robster · July 23, 2013, 08:47:40 AM

Certainly does seem strange coming from such a renowned person.! Will be interested to see if he replies to Trouts protestations.!! :dodgy:

wwwww · July 23, 2013, 08:51:00 AM

Quote from: 'coxspau' pid='22569' dateline='1374534722'Well, everyone else is wading into this discussion, so I might as well.

Credit to him, he does mentioned that the coin has been cleaned.

However, to grade the coin VF is a bit of a porky. Perhaps US coins are graded differently than AUS coins, although I had always been under the assumption that the F/VF/EF/UNC grades were universal.

If that is VF, then I need to go back and regrade all my pre-decs.

The US standard is different, a VF30 by definition equates to a good Fine in Australia.

Quote from: 'trout' pid='22568' dateline='1374534169'
Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='22566' dateline='1374532781'What's the problem? You could probably get that into a PCGS or NGC VF30.

Don't judge the entire coin by the band of the crown.

I sincerely doubt that Walter.
I put it to you that this well and truly scrubbed coin would come back in a "Details" slab Ungraded :ok:
What is upsetting is after all the bagging over the years regarding Basement slobbers and when Bobby puts one up it is considered "Kosher", give me a break a spade is a spade regardless of who is holding it.

It's not about who puts it up, it's about whether it's accurately graded or not. It doesn't look well and truly scrubbed to me. It probably has light hairlines on the surface which resulted in the designation, the top tier grading services only no grade for cleaning if the damage caused by the cleaning is significantly more than such a coin would normally expect to receive from circulation for the given grading. At the VF30 level the coin is going to be covered in hairlines anyway so unless the hairlines are particular harsh (in which case they'd show up in the photos), the top tier TPGs will still grade it.

trout · July 23, 2013, 08:57:08 AM

I defer to your better judgment and knowledge Walter.
So why is this still in the basement slab when PCGS/NGC could slab it ?

wwwww · July 23, 2013, 09:05:03 AM

Quote from: 'trout' pid='22574' dateline='1374535628'I defer to your better judgment and knowledge Walter.
So why is this still in the basement slab when PCGS/NGC could slab it ?

This coin isn't likely to realise a higher value in a PCGS/NGC slab than it is raw. Circulated Australian coins are usually graded accurately enough already so PCGS has never been popular among collectors of these.

enworb · July 23, 2013, 09:27:36 AM

I think you were a bit harsh mate. As i said in the CCF thread and walter has now backed up its not the worst graded coin ever. At that price its not completely unreasonable. I sell absolutely shocking examples with mostly missing legends for $15-20. $60 isnt that much to get a coin with a nicely detailed reverse and full obverse legends.