Grading consistency

trout · January 02, 2015, 08:01:02 PM

Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='64748' dateline='1420190459'
Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='64737' dateline='1420184993'An educated collector who knows how to grade, for example, would pay no more for say a 1930 penny graded VF, or whatever, just because it was in a slab. Same for a 1920 penny / ./ London obverse, or a 1931 dropped 1 penny Indian obverse and so on and so forth.

Too true AC, being slabbed however may also open up the sale to a wider market to include collectors who are less confident in their grading skills and who are worried about authenticity

That's where APCGS and the like become a real worry :ok:
Regardless of which slab the coin is in ( Even the top 2 TPGS have got it wrong on the rare occasion) Judge the coin itself, NOT the slab.

autocoupler · January 02, 2015, 08:42:17 PM

Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='64748' dateline='1420190459'Too true AC, being slabbed however may also open up the sale to a wider market to include collectors who are less confident in their grading skills and who are worried about authenticity

Point taken stevo, but IMO it still gets back to placing blind faith on the say so of another entity, whether there is conflict of interest or not.

echidna · January 02, 2015, 08:51:00 PM

These days a lot of grading is done without the coin in the hand.
So image quality is very important.
Unfortunately too many photos are not good enough.
Even some big dealers like Nobles have sub-standard images.

If you are going to spend reasonable amounts of money then there is an addition skill required which is to grade based on sub-standard images.
There has been a thread about this in the past but I'd like to see much more info.

stevo1962 · January 02, 2015, 09:12:51 PM

Quote from: 'echidna' pid='64758' dateline='1420194060'These days a lot of grading is done without the coin in the hand.
So image quality is very important.
Unfortunately too many photos are not good enough.
Even some big dealers like Nobles have sub-standard images.

If you are going to spend reasonable amounts of money then there is an addition skill required which is to grade based on sub-standard images.
There has been a thread about this in the past but I'd like to see much more info.

This is particularly relevant for many online collectors who will never be able to view coins in hand and once you make a few bad purchases you will soon learn to scrutinise those photos even harder as I have learnt over the years.The sting in the wallet is a lesson you learn very fast

trout · January 02, 2015, 09:15:26 PM

QuoteThis is particularly relevant for many online collectors who will never be able to view coins in hand and once you make a few bad purchases you will soon learn to scrutinise those photos even harder as I have learnt over the years.The sting in the wallet is a lesson you learn very fast

:agreed:

oh my florin · January 02, 2015, 11:12:40 PM

Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='64737' dateline='1420184993'No doubt some of what you say about perceived occasional conduct by some auction houses may have merit, but as trout said, "education is paramount". There is absolutely no excuse for collectors or investors being caught out, they need to educate themselves and do their research before taking the plunge into deeper waters. They certainly should not place blind faith in those who have a vested interest, only lazy people do that.

An educated collector who knows how to grade, for example, would pay no more for say a 1930 penny graded VF, or whatever, just because it was in a slab. Same for a 1920 penny / ./ London obverse, or a 1931 dropped 1 penny Indian obverse and so on and so forth.

Education is very important however when a coin in hand has very blatantly been cleaned but then photographed in a way which not only disguises but completely eliminates any traces of it without even mentioning it in the listing is absurd. The auction house may have a vested interest in selling the coin but they also have a vested interest in doing it ethically. It would be similar to buying a house with all the right supporting paperwork only to find out later that the foundations are faulty. I am not saying you should place blind faith in these auction houses but at least an expectation to display a coin as it is rather than using nearly every technique available to disguise it.

autocoupler · January 02, 2015, 11:54:04 PM

Quote from: 'oh my florin' pid='64767' dateline='1420202560'Education is very important however when a coin in hand has very blatantly been cleaned but then photographed in a way which not only disguises but completely eliminates any traces of it without even mentioning it in the listing is absurd. The auction house may have a vested interest in selling the coin but they also have a vested interest in doing it ethically. It would be similar to buying a house with all the right supporting paperwork only to find out later that the foundations are faulty. I am not saying you should place blind faith in these auction houses but at least an expectation to display a coin as it is rather than using nearly every technique available to disguise it.

What you're saying unfortunately does happen, it's happened to me. I would like to think the prevalence of this behavior is limited, and IMO the best way to counter any dodgy activity like this is to acquire knowledge, and the skill to carry out our own appraisal. If the item is something that has long been on the wish list, I reckon the biggest danger is to allow the emotion and excitement of the moment to cloud our judgement.

oh my florin · January 03, 2015, 09:29:05 AM

Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='64768' dateline='1420205044'
Quote from: 'oh my florin' pid='64767' dateline='1420202560'Education is very important however when a coin in hand has very blatantly been cleaned but then photographed in a way which not only disguises but completely eliminates any traces of it without even mentioning it in the listing is absurd. The auction house may have a vested interest in selling the coin but they also have a vested interest in doing it ethically. It would be similar to buying a house with all the right supporting paperwork only to find out later that the foundations are faulty. I am not saying you should place blind faith in these auction houses but at least an expectation to display a coin as it is rather than using nearly every technique available to disguise it.

What you're saying unfortunately does happen, it's happened to me. I would like to think the prevalence of this behavior is limited, and IMO the best way to counter any dodgy activity like this is to acquire knowledge, and the skill to carry out our own appraisal. If the item is something that has long been on the wish list, I reckon the biggest danger is to allow the emotion and excitement of the moment to cloud our judgement.

I agree knowledge certainly does help in avoiding it. However I think we are approaching the question itself from two different perspectives in that mine is aimed at preventive while yours is reactive to the practice. Both of which are certainly valid but just down to interpreting the question/meaning a bit differently.