Grading consistency

[wwwww]

I'm still on the fence but starting to topple re raw V slab. There're pros and cons to both sides. I've attempted to come up with a method of rating using the following criteria of positives and negatives based on my wants and gut feelings. No doubt others will hold differing views. And had a bit of trouble Betty trying to do columns. :dodgy:
 
 (1) Vested Interest. Sheldon P, Adj. N                                  
(2) Differing opinion. Sheldon N, Adj. N                              
(3) Protection. Sheldon P, Adj. N                                          
(4) Post encasement issues i.e. verdigris etc. Sheldon N, Adj. P
 (5) Cost of buying slabbed. Sizable amounts paid. Is it sustainable? Sheldon N, Adj. P
 (6) Perceived value if not slabbed. Sheldon P, Adj. N      
(7) Storage i.e. 200 coins in album V's 200 slabs. Sheldon N, Adj. P                    
 ( Resale if creditable grade. Sheldon P, Adj. P                  
(9) Resale if not creditable grade i.e. loss of slabbing costs. Sheldon N, Adj. P                            
(10) Personal enjoyment. More positive connection if raw. Sheldon N, Adj. P

This should be TPG vs raw, as the Sheldon scale is just a system of representingg grades and can be used for both third party graded and raw coins.

But re your arguments;
2. The idea of third party grading is that most collectors stick to only one or two grading services (usually PCGS or NGC), so the grading variances are similar to a collector only buying from one or two dealers, except with a much larger range of coins.
4. This affects both raw and TPG graded coins, they are however covered by the TPG (PCGS offers a 10 year guarantee that copper coins don't deteriorate in slabs and a lifetime guarantee for everything else) so I don't see how this is a negative for slabs and a positive for raw coins.
5. Most raw coins would be worth less if slabbed. Most slabbed coins would be worth less if raw. This is the nature of any market (that coins will eventually end up in the state they are worth most). The extreme cases in both categories are unsustainable in the long term.
8/9. your points here illustrate what I describe in 5. This isn't really a fault/benefit of TPGs, but rather the coin itself, TPGs merely reveal the true nature of the coin.

[autocoupler]

This should be TPG vs raw, as the Sheldon scale is just a system of representingg grades and can be used for both third party graded and raw coins.

But re your arguments;
2. The idea of third party grading is that most collectors stick to only one or two grading services (usually PCGS or NGC), so the grading variances are similar to a collector only buying from one or two dealers, except with a much larger range of coins.
4. This affects both raw and TPG graded coins, they are however covered by the TPG (PCGS offers a 10 year guarantee that copper coins don't deteriorate in slabs and a lifetime guarantee for everything else) so I don't see how this is a negative for slabs and a positive for raw coins.
5. Most raw coins would be worth less if slabbed. Most slabbed coins would be worth less if raw. This is the nature of any market (that coins will eventually end up in the state they are worth most). The extreme cases in both categories are unsustainable in the long term.
8/9. your points here illustrate what I describe in 5. This isn't really a fault/benefit of TPGs, but rather the coin itself, TPGs merely reveal the true nature of the coin.

Of course you are correct about TPG V RAW. Appreciate your thoughts. I still have reservations about unsatifactory grades from TPG's, more to do with personal expectation V's end result and wasted fees, I guess in the end it relates to the owners perception and ability to acurately rationalise the item.

[trout]

Ok here is my take on the Pro's and Cons of Slabbed vs Raw

1.   Slabbed coins offer a consistency of grade and authenticity, whereas a raw coin doesn't.
2.   2. Raw coins ARE far easier to store than slabbed coins but it is just a matter of what you prefer and the amount of storage space you have available.
3.   As a resale option a slabbed coin will far out perform a raw coin hands down.
4.   You MUST learn how to grade to a certain standard before submitting a coin to avoid pitfalls like "Details" and receiving a lesser grade than expected, With raw coins it really doesn't matter.
5.   It IS expensive to get coins graded by PCGS and NGC but if you do it right this cost is offset by the eventual resale value of the coin, A raw coin costs little to nothing to store in a 2x2.
6.   A slab offers far better protection than a 2x2 for the coin.
7.   A raw coin is easier to look at, weigh and photograph than a slabbed coin.
8.   A raw coin is normally cheaper to buy than a slabbed coin But if you don't know what you are doing and are uncertain as to the grade and authenticity of a particular coin you can come undone quite easily.

I am in the process of getting all my Valuable, scarce/rare and High grade coins Slabbed by either PCGS or NGC.

Am I wasting my money .............Possibly
Have I added value to these coins............Hopefully
Are my coins now better protected than when they were in 2x2's ....Certainly
Am I enjoying the process of doing this...........My oath I am

[Oldcoinchest]

Thanks for insight nealeffendi, all makes sense. Im not saying I have never bought an unseen coin or item, ofcourse I have but in doing so I have always made a decision to work out what im happy to part with (risk). Its good to hear that you have come out on top on of it all. I just got some rules that I follow to try & keep me out of trouble. Some times the best investment can be to keep you money in the pocket but no risk no reward

[runway]

I'm interested in getting a few medium value coins slabbed but I'm very reluctant to mail these out,the thought I will never see them again scares me

[Goldseeker]

If you are worried about loosing them then can I suggest you send a message to wwwww, a member of this forum who may be able to assist you.

I sent seven 2000 Mules and two major error 50c pieces and got them all back via wwwww.

No problems.

[nealeffendi]

If you are worried about loosing them then can I suggest you send a message to wwwww, a member of this forum who may be able to assist you.

I sent seven 2000 Mules and two major error 50c pieces and got them all back via wwwww.

No problems.

What was the final all up slabbing fee+post cost (per coin) for the two error coins? How often does Walter put together a lot of error coins to send as the return postage on just a couple of error coins must be a killer.

[Goldseeker]

Not sure how often Walter puts coins together to send to the plastics factory but my all in cost per coin was $35.00.

I was more than happy to deal with Walter and would recommend him to anyone.

I am not sure how many other coins Walter added to my group to send off.   That can only be answered by Walter, sorry.

[drakesterling]

I charge $25 per coin to send over most mules (and decimal coins). This is the "all-in" cost, except for insurance. Different coins will be charged at different rates. You can see the full details on my site:
http://www.drakesterling.com/coins-for-sale/news-wire/news-wire/pcgs-grading-costs-and-services

Eric Eigner

[PNC king]

my hubby bought an choice unc crown (graded by the owner at the time) and when he submitted it back to the same auction house they graded it as e/f

That's exactly why you'd get a coin graded by a TPG.  Sure, PCGS and NGC are not perfect but they don't care what they grade your coin, as long as they believe they have applied their grading standard consistently.  Compare this with a dealer whose profit margin is padded out by selling your coin as an UNC and buying it back as EF.  Of course it's dealers like this who poo poo TPG graded coins the most publicly because they realise that if they gain market traction it's the end of their way of doing business.  Bring it on I say.

my thoughts exactly move with the times or retire as the dealers who bag pcgs are dinosaurs who need to go SOONER rather than later

[trout]

my thoughts exactly move with the times or retire as the dealers who bag pcgs are dinosaurs who need to go SOONER rather than later

I think it is FAR more important that collectors learn how to Grade a coin and detect cleaning, dipping and other issues including Fakes.

There will ALWAYS be Raw coins on the market and it is unfeasible to have every single coin graded by a TPG, Also many collectors abhor slabbed/slobbed coins .

Education IS the secret and the more savvy collectors get the less chance an unscrupulous dealer will have of deceit :ok:
Lets not forget the Many honest and reliable B+T dealers that sell RAW coins and have been for years, Just because a coin isn't TPG graded and slabbed doesn't mean it is "Unworthy"

I agree that a PCGS/NGC graded coin is a fantastic way of purchasing a coin "sight unseen" , But so is the knowledge that the dealer you are buying off  is reliable and consistent with their grades and authenticity.

There is also the issue with APCGS and other "Unrecognised" ( I tried to put that as nicely as I could :angel: ) putting over graded and cleaned coins in slabs that are just as shonky as those other "Dinosaurs"  :ok:

A well known seller of "superbly Polished" coins was one of the first to use this "Newcomer" in the TPG market and many of his "Cronies" have followed suit taking advantage of what PCGS and NGC coins have done for the reliability of a coins grade and condition.

SO
EDUCATION is paramount regardless of whither a coin is slabbed or raw because either way you can be "Shafted" if you don't take due diligence.

[autocoupler]

:agreed:

IMHO, if an item is rare, of high grade, and desirable, it doesn't matter if it's slabbed or raw.

[oh my florin]

:agreed:

IMHO, if an item is rare, of high grade, and desirable, it doesn't matter if it's slabbed or raw.

On that statement I believe it would be even more supportive of slabbed coins as I have heard absolutely nightmarish stories of coins sold at some major auction houses which would certainly push any collector towards buying coins already slabbed. Some due to incompetence all the way through to intentionally deceptive behaviour by the auction house. Unfortunately though we don't hear a lot of these as legislative provisions designed to protect auction houses are so strong unethical auction houses would have to be exceptionally stupid to get caught let alone prosecuted.

[autocoupler]

No doubt some of what you say about perceived occasional conduct by some auction  houses may have merit, but as trout said, "education is paramount". There is absolutely no excuse for collectors or investors being caught out, they need to educate themselves and do their research before taking the plunge into deeper waters. They certainly should not place blind faith in those who have a vested interest, only lazy people do that.

An educated collector who knows how to grade, for example, would pay no more for say a 1930 penny graded VF, or whatever, just because it was in a slab. Same for a 1920 penny / ./ London obverse, or a 1931 dropped 1 penny Indian obverse and so on and so forth.

[stevo1962]

An educated collector who knows how to grade, for example, would pay no more for say a 1930 penny graded VF, or whatever, just because it was in a slab. Same for a 1920 penny / ./ London obverse, or a 1931 dropped 1 penny Indian obverse and so on and so forth.

Too true AC, being slabbed however may also open up the sale to a wider market to include collectors who are less confident in their grading skills and who are worried about authenticity