members ebay and other site links

[robbiegal]

:i_agree:

[trout]

In Sheldon grades Uncirculated is MS60-62 Choice Uncirculated is MS63-64 :ok:
Before throwing stones you mob , think about how hard it is to get an Aussie pre decimal graded by PCGS in MS grades without a "Details" grade.
A Great deal of our pre decimals have been cleaned over the years and it is readily apparent on the TPG population reports.
You have to think outside the square because the Sheldon system has 10 grades from Uncirculated to FDC, Unlike our system that only grades UNC, CH Unc, Bu unc and FDC :ok:

[stevo1962]

In Sheldon grades Uncirculated is MS60-62 Choice Uncirculated is MS63-64 :ok:

:agreed: I've deliberately tried to buy coins graded MS63 or better due to the distinction between UNC and CH UNC

[Fr45h3R]

As always, buy the coin, not the holder.
The PCGS -> ANDA conversion is a guide at best, as different aspects of the coin make up the grade.

ps: Trout your MS61 Canberra is back on ebay @ $200 :icon_cry:

[trout]

Looks like someone went a bit crazy bidding.
Transaction has been cancelled :ok:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/171202702103?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1559.l2649

I had a look at Trouts listings and noticed that it had a nice Canberra florin PCGS MS63 as "Choice Uncirculated". Is there a common agreement on what level "Choice" applies and indeed at what level "Gem" applies?
I've noticed a few (all reputable) sellers having MS65 coins as Gem:scratch_one-s_head: , so does that make MS66, 67 and 68 better than gem?
Am I being too harsh (or the industry too lax) in describing MS60-62 as UNC (with issues), MS63-64 as UNC, MS 65 as Choice Unc and MS66-68 as Gem?
Even MS66 might only be Choice Unc to the purists.
Is this opening a can of worms:diablo:

Take a minimum of 10 minutes learning the Sheldon grading system and you would not embarrass yourself by asking this question :ok:

As always, buy the coin, not the holder.
The PCGS -> ANDA conversion is a guide at best, as different aspects of the coin make up the grade.

ps: Trout your MS61 Canberra is back on ebay @ $200 :icon_cry:

All is good Mate :ok:

[nealeffendi]

Take a minimum of 10 minutes learning the Sheldon grading system and you would not embarrass yourself by asking this question :ok:


[/quote]

I have been learning the Sheldon grading system, but has the Australian industry? How can a coin be called Choice at MS63 when it is only an average Uncirculated coin or be called Gem when it still has obvious bag marks visible to the naked eye? Gem means just that GEM so it should have no detracting marks, I have a PCGS slabbed shilling at MS65 with such detracting marks and there is zilch chance that I would label it Gem. My MS66 threepences might deserve the accolade of Gem and certainly the MS67 deserves it. They are later QEII coins so it isn't hard (or expensive) to obtain in Choice and Gem quality.
I understand that most of the Geo V has been ruined by dipping and leaves the truly nice stuff even rarer, but rarity does not excuse grade or  description inflation. If only a handful of early coins are truly Gem then so be it. Read an old copy of Hanley to see how tough old school collectors were in grading coins, they only called the best of the best as Gem.
It isn't a dig at you or any of the others in particular but at the trend in general to inflate quality adjectives above what the coins are. Before long MS62 will be Choice Uncirculated and MS64 will be Gem unless purists draw a line in the sand.

[trout]

Take a minimum of 10 minutes learning the Sheldon grading system and you would not embarrass yourself by asking this question :ok:

I have been learning the Sheldon grading system, but has the Australian industry? How can a coin be called Choice at MS63 when it is only an average Uncirculated coin or be called Gem when it still has obvious bag marks visible to the naked eye? Gem means just that GEM so it should have no detracting marks, I have a PCGS slabbed shilling at MS65 with such detracting marks and there is zilch chance that I would label it Gem. My MS66 threepences might deserve the accolade of Gem and certainly the MS67 deserves it. They are later QEII coins so it isn't hard (or expensive) to obtain in Choice and Gem quality.
I understand that most of the Geo V has been ruined by dipping and leaves the truly nice stuff even rarer, but rarity does not excuse grade or  description inflation. If only a handful of early coins are truly Gem then so be it. Read an old copy of Hanley to see how tough old school collectors were in grading coins, they only called the best of the best as Gem.
It isn't a dig at you or any of the others in particular but at the trend in general to inflate quality adjectives above what the coins are. Before long MS62 will be Choice Uncirculated and MS64 will be Gem unless purists draw a line in the sand.

I fully understand where you are coming from Mate :ok:
I used to hate the very concept of "Slobbed" coins with a passion and used to argue quite vehemently against them :ok:
I still grade using ANDA grades then I convert them to Sheldon, A bit like turning kilometers into miles whilst I am driving long distances.
An uncirculated coin at the lower end of the scale WILL be baggy ( the 1946 florin is a perfect example due to them being transported in bulk bags)
there are ANDA grades equivalent to Sheldon grades and I am used to them but it  can be misleading and most times inaccurate when buying from a dealer (lets face it a large percentage  of dealers couldn't tell a cleaned coin if it hit them in the eye).
As far as I can work the Sheldon grades in comparison to ANDA grades are as follows ;

MS 60-62  =  Uncirculated
MS63-64   = Choice Uncirculated
MS65-67   = good choice uncirculated
MS68-69   = Gem Uncirculated
MS70        = FDC

What changed my opinions about getting coins graded and slabbed by the Major TPG's are these facts;

1. A coin graded by one of the major TPG's is 99.99% guaranteed to be authentic, Whereas a raw coin can be quite iffy sometimes .
2. A coin graded by one of the major TPG's is  graded impartially and without prejudice and 99.99% of the time the grade is "Spot On" unlike a raw coin the grade is subjective to the personal opinion of the seller in most cases.
The Sheldon system  works on Wear, Luster, strike, bagmarks, and eye appeal , Exactly the same as the ANDA system except that the grades are numerical.
It is simply a different grading language and NOT a case of inflating grades.

[nealeffendi]

Like you Trout I'm a convert to the slabs.
I an not a fan of ANDA, they have some great members, but also many dodgy ones, most will hide the fact that a coin is dipped if they can get away with it. Dipping and other bodybag issues are probably the biggest reason I like the slabs, nowhere to hide. The nice Geo V silver I purchased years ago would probably all have been dipped by those dealers so I have no Geo V silver worthy of sending off (bugger).
If ANDA grades MS65-67= good choice uncirculated then there are no slabbed pre decimal gems (and probably no raw ones), a bit harsh.
On eBay most dealers are calling PCGSMS65 as Gem, far to lax a conversion.
Gem to me equals WOW. I just hope the rise in slabbing kills off the dipping (and the dealers who dip shut up shop).

[trout]

Like you Trout I'm a convert to the slabs.
I an not a fan of ANDA, they have some great members, but also many dodgy ones, most will hide the fact that a coin is dipped if they can get away with it. Dipping and other bodybag issues are probably the biggest reason I like the slabs, nowhere to hide. The nice Geo V silver I purchased years ago would probably all have been dipped by those dealers so I have no Geo V silver worthy of sending off (bugger).
If ANDA grades MS65-67= good choice uncirculated then there are no slabbed pre decimal gems (and probably no raw ones), a bit harsh.
On eBay most dealers are calling PCGSMS65 as Gem, far to lax a conversion.
Gem to me equals WOW. I just hope the rise in slabbing kills off the dipping (and the dealers who dip shut up shop).

:agreed:
Well stated Mate, At least PCGS and NGC will keep the buggers honest , Because NOW they will have to compete and lift their game to stay in business :angel:

[Fr45h3R]

I just hope the rise in slabbing kills off the dipping (and the dealers who dip shut up shop).

Dipping, if done correctly will not prevent a coin being graded. In fact, you can send a coin that has toned in a way where the eye appeal is negatively impacted to both PCGS and NGC for restoration. I haven't read about the NGC option, but at PCGS they will evaluate if the coin should be 'restored' before attempting it, ie: They will not restore a coin where the toning adds eye appeal.
If I can quote a line out of the PCGS Restoration page, I've bolded the section where the dealers get it wrong

Often these problems can be addressed by the skillful application of various non-invasive and industry-accepted techniques

Those dealers that practice their own restoration only need to change one thing. They should only perform the 'restoration' on request of the customer, and by doing this we all could probably arrive at a happy place.
Right now, they believe the customers want blast white coins, so that's what they offer.
Sorry for going off topic!
-rob

[trout]

@  Rob.
I answered your post in the PCGS submissions thread :good:

[JeffH]

To try and clear my (now) redundant ex-market stall stock I am doing a few "Buy it Now" listings for multiples of the same coin. Otherwise I will still be listing some months down the track!
Example 2001 20 cents "BRADMAN" - UNCIRCULATED from rolls. If you are interested in some of these BIN listings; don't bid -contact me and I will give you a better price.

Cheers,
Jeff

[oh my florin]

I see the conversion being as follows
MS60-61 Impaired Unc
MS62 Typical UNC
MS63-4 CHUNC
MS65 GEMUNC

[markn]

This thread is for discussion of members eBay listings.  I've read the last three pages of posts and almost none of them are on topic.  I'll be going through here with a scythe later and deleting without prejudice.  Honestly, there's so many different sub-forums here I find it staggering you can't find the RIGHT place to be talking about this stuff.  

If anyone wants something saved they'd better let me know and I'll move it to a new thread.

[JeffH]

I have added some more proof coins to my market stall stock clearance. Here is one 1979 50 cents PROOF
More surplus coins tomorrow.

Jeff