Covid 19

[nealeffendi]

A couple more points out of Israel.
The vaccinated hospitalised with severe corona seem to recover faster and have a lower death rate.
That however is the only good news.
The bad news is analysis of hospital admissions show that the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated is the same as the general population (so vaccination offered no protection against infection). Also the viral load in vaccinated is the same as in the unvaccinated....so they will transmit equally making vaccine passports etc pointless.
Guess stupid Gladys is right and we will have to live with the virus.
Best thing to do is reduce your comorbidities, lose that extra weight, don't get vitamin D deficient and give up the bad habits that compromise your immune system.

[JeffH]

The "world famous Dr Kobi Haviv" no less. Interesting that googling him turns up literally hundreds of matches. All, except one are different sites reporting his channel 13 interview in almost identical words. The exception is a site referencing an interview on channel 11 -looks like the same report paraphrased.

The hospital specialises in geriatric (over 60 age) disorders. I feel sure their patient group would be representative of the general Israeli population. [sarcasm]

I see the virus is referred to as "(CCP or Chinese Communist Party virus)".

Looks like rubbish to me. But that is only my opinion.

[nealeffendi]

Oh, I understand your concerns for most of  the sources (3rd rate iffy). I just go on the numbers contained, are they accurate etc. The doctor and the subject are also covered in Haaretz which is a national media source.
As for the type of hospital, mmm considering most posters here and most people who succumb to this bug are not spring chickens then the hospital type is relevant. The hospital is big (330 beds), that compares to say Perth hospitals 450 beds but pales compared to Fred's Westmead with 950 beds.

[JeffH]

I tried to get some figures of vaccination rates in Israel for age groups but no luck getting reliable figures. It does appear that a very high proportion of the elderly are fully vaccinated and, as vaccination does not prevent infection, they would be expected to be a high proportion of that age group infected.
There doesn't appear to be reliable data on numbers of severe cases but there has been no significant rise in hospital admissions or deaths.

So no real evidence for Dr Haviv's hypothesis but also no definite repudiation of it. Time will no doubt tell but, in the meantime, plenty of conjecture and speculation.

Israel to offer third Pfizer COVID-19 vaccination dose to older citizens

How are COVID vaccines faring against Delta? 

Vaccine doubters' strange fixation with Israel

[nealeffendi]

Yes, I agree that lots of the conclusions are still in the unproven column. The talk of a third jab isn't just going on in Israel. Plus various leads mention things like 6th monthly boosters, annual boosters and a cocktail of boosters. Time will tell

[JeffH]

I would call them "assumptions" rather than "conclusions" at this stage.

[gweidion]

I see they are already saying once we have our two shots of Pfiser we should start booking a shot of Moderna as a booster. Timeframe as yet ungiven.
I just love being a pincushion. No wait, I hate needles. Damn it.
I also love the bit about how after you have had your Astra Zeneca shots that you will not be welcome in Europe or the United States because they don't recognise you as vaccinated.

[nealeffendi]

I also don't like how there are only 2 vaccine options. There are at least 6 different options available in Egypt (where my home is). 2 Chinese versions, the Russian Sputnik and another western version.
As for being a pin cushion, needles don't phase me (donated lots of blood in the past). But you will have to wait awhile to get that booster as it will take until the end of the year to get enough doses for those who want the jab to get 2. If the Israelis say the jab starts to wane in effectiveness after what? 4 months then lots of the early jabbers in Australia might find themselves not very well protected later this year.
And I'm not anti vaccine, just a risk assessor, so for someone elderly with comorbidities the risk of the bug outweighs the risk of long term side effects; plus some possible side effects (like fertility impairment) probably doesn't matter when your 80.

[redlock]

I also love the bit about how after you have had your Astra Zeneca shots that you will not be welcome in Europe or the United States because they don't recognise you as vaccinated.

I am not sure about the USA. But you can enter the Schengen Area (that's the EU plus some other European countries) when you are fully vaccinated.
That means:
--double jab of BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine
--double jab of Moderna vaccine
--single jab of Johnson & Johnsen
--double jab of AZ shot
and a 14 day waiting period after the second jab.

The AZ vaccine is not used in the USA because the FDA has not authorized it. Why? AZ never submitted the paper work. Therefore, the USA don't recognize a vaccination with AZ so far.

The Chinese vaccines seem to work only moderately well. They are definitely inferior to the four mentioned above. And Sputnik? Oh well, if the Russian people don't trust it, you shouldn't either.

Here in Germany, no-one wants the AZ vaccine anymore. Hence, the German government will donate everything that is still going to be delivered by AZ to the Covax initiative, plus AZ vaccine that has already been delivered and still usuable.

[nealeffendi]

My understanding is that one of the vaccines is made exactly the same in a couple of countries but for some reason some of the production plants product isn't certified in Europe. Read that Malta refused people with that issue, not a hygiene or efficacy issue but yet another paperwork issue.
Not sure about the Sputnik vaccine for effectiveness but the Russians (government at least) are saying that is purely Western spite.
The 2 Chinese products are reportedly less effective than the CLIAMED effectiveness of the Western stuff, but those claims are almost certainly inflated as the trials counted infected but without symptoms in the protected column (even if they are still carriers spreading the bug like that Aussie in California who had  the 2 jabs, had no symptoms and still infected at least 60 guests).

[Unicorn]

For all my friends here. I know we all have our thoughts on the issue, but I think this gents thoughts are worth the watch. :-)
https://www.facebook.com/724185394/videos/642342470526587/

[Triggersmob]

Very well worth watching. Thanks for the link.

[nealeffendi]

The doctor is ignoring all the evidence from South Africa and the UK when he states "Omicron might be slightly less severe". There is no evidence from the UK (that is having 200,000 cases a day) that this strain will overwhelm the health system and multiple doctors in South Africa have also asserted that this strain is very mild. Best thing is for every healthy person to catch this cold and have it boost their immune system. Yesterday I operated a builders lift for 12 hours with maybe 100 workers making frequent use of the lift. 2 of them even said that they had just tested positive and that didn't phase me. Everyone will get it in the next month or 2 and then the pandemic will be over so the omicron outbreak is good.

[nealeffendi]

If you follow Dr Campbell on Youtube there are currently 195 patients in England with Omicron. A tiny fraction considering England is having 200,000+ cases daily.

[nealeffendi]

Also over 1.5 million in the UK currently symptomatic. Considering that South Africa reported over 60% are asymptomatic that implies about 4 million in the UK currently have Omicron. I'd be more worried about getting sunburnt this summer than getting Omicron.