1922 Threepence.Possible remants of something

[Basil]

Poor quality Coin from a bulk buy but under the Loupe a remnant of something is left,does not show clearly with Microscope Pics.,i've done the best i can,but it is in the correct position for the downstroke of the one.  
Also the last 2 seems to be doubled...Anyone seen this before or has an opinion...TIA.





Blob in front of Kangarroo Pouch..?

[Nevol]

What little I know of the 22/21 is that the 1 is usually very strong, so IMO this coin is not an overdate, but having said that, I'm no expert.  :winkextra:

[fred lever]

Well spotted, its a hubbing artifact. The more you look at pre decimals the more you find.
I went into the 1921-1922 die varieties in chapter and verse so has David Briggs.
I'll get a go at my data base tonight and see if either of us listed or noted any about the 1922 hubbing and doubling of numbers.
Fred..

[echidna]

Nice pics Basil.

[Basil]

Thanks for the replies,the remnant/strip/mark/blob is in the correct place for the one and really stands out with the Loupe,i'll try and get a better Pic. for future reference.

[nealeffendi]

I'd have to agree with Nancy, the 1 is always obvious and wear/tear doesn't obliterate it. If it was there it would be as easy to see as the 2 and as Dave correctly points out you took some decent photos.

[Basil]

I'd have to agree with Nancy, the 1 is always obvious and wear/tear doesn't obliterate it. If it was there it would be as easy to see as the 2 and as Dave correctly points out you took some decent photos.

I agree as well Neale,just thought i would throw it up whilst its quiet on here in case someone has seen it before.
As i said it really stands out with a Loupe but not so much with the USB Scope.

Local Coin Collecting friend is bringing his medical scope over on the W/end to look at a couple of my Coins so will try and get a better Pic. in case a similar Coin bobs up down the line.

I think anything is possible with old Coins now the average Punter has access to USB Microsopes,previously it was only in the realm of the major Dealers.

[Basil]

I'll throw these Pics. up,taken with my Ebay Cheepie USB,still can't get the money shot that shows with a Loupe.
Friend is going to have a go with a pro. scope on Sunday so will throw up the results if any better.
Definitly remnant of something.

[Goldseeker]

Here are the scans of my two 1922/21 overprint coins and both have distinct 2 over 1:

[fred lever]

The reverse die markers should be visible on every genuine example.
Thats the flaws in front of the kanga's tummy like goose bumps.
I think I can see them ok on Goldies pair.
Agree also the "1" is deep and firm on mine and every genuine one I have seen.
Fred.

[Basil]

Hi Goldie,great you have found 2,i've never come across any i could afford over the years.
That is the textbook O/D but they may have experimented after that "dogs balls O/D" as one Sydney Dealer was quoted as saying back in the 1970's.
One more Pic. to annoy you guys,if you could see the image with the aid of a Loupe you would see what i was on about,i can't reproduce with my Scopes but we will try with the Pro. scope on Sunday,what ever it is we are almost certain its from the Die.

[Basil]

Coin Collecting friend bought his Son's Pro-Scope around this morning,still can't get the money shot that a angled Loupe shows but we got some interesting shots.
At high magnification the remains of the top loop of a 2 shows outside the current two loops.Looks like they have had 3 goes at positioning the 2,the remnants showing in the top loop appear to be in the correct position for the '1' but of course may be something else.
The 3 of us(he lobbed with one of his interested friends) all agree this Die has had some Mint attention and worth further inspection by experts,shame its such a poor quality Coin.
I have more shots but everyone has to be resized for the Forum SW so that can wait for another Day.







img]https://www.australian-coins.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10136/493/SingleShot0008resize.jpg[/img]

[Basil]

Update,i know most of you are skeptical,(thats ok,that's what Forums are for to express a view/opinion) but a local(Gold Coast) Coin guru rang me last night after viewing the Pics.
He is reasonably confident its a unknown variety of the 1922 O/D,the residue of the '1' is in the correct position but the key is the multiple attempts to reposition the '2' whilst the 1,9 and first 2 are pristine and clean.This points to a die(hub?)being recut.
He pointed out i will probably have to wait for a similar Coin to turn up before it would gain any traction in the current "3rd party grading"  coin world.
On a similar theme of keeping an open mind i have a 1934 O/D where the '3' is in a different(compared to the 4) position to the standard,accepted overdate, which shows the Mints were not backwards in experimenting with their Dies pre WW11.
Who knows what will show up in the years ahead with USB Scopes in almost every Coin Collectors home.

[echidna]

Yeah there are some interesting new varieties out there if you really look.

Do you have a pic of the full reverse of this 34 threepence ?

[fred lever]

Hi Basil, for a complex run down on the 1934 threepence overdate I recommend reading David Briggs analysis of the date, pages 232 to 234 of his  book on Threepences 2nd edition. In there he discuses how the coin came about in detail and the tools used. There are some good photos of the various appearances of the 4 in a paragraph "studying the overdate" p233. You can go through a bunch of overdates and match yours to the pictures.
He also covers the 22/21 overdate in great detail , pages 158 to 162 also showing what tools were used to produce the muck up and the die markers of the single die used.
A study of the whole book explains a lot about the techniques used in producing three pences and the hundreds of photos in the book show just how "rough" these coins are when you slap a microscope on them and see all sorts of things not obvious to the naked eye!


if you dont have Briggs 3d on hand I can scan the pages and send them to you.

Fred.