1920 DOBS English OBV Penny

[Basilstate]

You would think there'd be half a dozen bidders fighting for it by now. Yet no bidders so far. Most commonwealth varieties collectors are now in old people homes. New collector's are just interested in coloured 2 dollar coins...lol..

Yes Stan,interesting to see what it goes for or if it indeed sells.
I have one,not as good grade as that one,but was still offered $2000 by a local Dealer,i'll think i'll wait thou.

Edit...just went thru. Pre-Dec. listings,hardly a bid on anything,IAG used to be one of the best Auctions pre-Covid but very slow start to this auction.

[nealeffendi]

Still a month to the auction, last few auctions I've been blown out of the water by other bidders for the choice coins I was interested in after my early bids at well over estimate were streaked past on the night. Will be interesting to see what this one goes for. The deep indentation is a major problem for what is otherwise a nice example. Would it be enough to stop it getting a grade as without that dent it would be an XF40, possibly even a 45.
There is very little to tempt me in this auction as nothing in wow condition or high MS slabs in the silver. Not sure why the auction is referring to so many mid grade MS (63-64) slabs as ChUnc/Gem when a quick glance shows bag marks etc that justified only a mid MS grade that they were assessed as.

[Basilstate]

Yes Neale,i've blown the Pic. up on the 1920 DOBS English,not as clear as i would like but i think the indentation on the Obv. is a planchett flaw,very serendipitous in shape.

I've never purchased anything from IAG but have watched their pre-Dec. listings over the years,he certainly gets good prices for the better grades/rare coins.

[nealeffendi]

Hi Basil, I thought it was from a nail, a simple thing like that halves the value as anyone who wants a scarce and expensive coin for a set registry usually passes up on a no grade coin and that means less bidders and no bidding war from 2 deep pockets.

[Basilstate]

Hi Neale,just surmising without a decent Pic. of the Coin.
These days once the rarer Coins come on the market they really need to be slabbed to get anywhere near book value.

Looking at a couple of the pre-dec Coins but might wait to see if there is any interest before bidding.

[nealeffendi]

Hi Basil. I find the concept of book value as mostly unreliable. Take for example the 1952 florin. We all have stacks of them in circulated grades, frankly worth bullion value. But Numistip has F12 (really well circulated) as worth $21. Would you pay $21 for a coin worth $6? Then in MS62 they have it worth $110, that is a high value on a low end Unc. In MS63 and MS64 they have  $140 and $250 and they are near the money. Then in MS65 the book vale is $430, that is a joke as the third example that hit that high grade sold some months ago for well over $2000, I dropped out of the bidding at over $1000 as I already have the second example (and Timbertop has the first example). I doubt any of those 3 will hit the market for a while and with the rise in values at the top end a fair value might be $3000. So how did they come up with $430? And how did they come up with $390 last year, especially as last year there were only 2 in that grade? All the catalogues do that, over value low end coins but undervalue the Top Of The Pops coins.
And is it possible that the DOBS English example in the auction is raw (unslabbed) as the owner was advised it would No Grade if sent off for slabbing?

[Basilstate]

Hi Neale...attached a Pic. of a similar Coin,it looks like a Planchette or Die flaw behind the Kings Head.
There was another unslabbed Coin on Oz Ebay a few years ago,DOLS ,English Obverse,that had that 'ding' behind the Kings Head and the malformed denticles on the Obv.,i downloaded the Pics. but can't find them at the moment.
The Coin was suddenly withdrawn so someone must have tipped the seller off on what variety it was.
I will Post Pics., when i find them.

[serenitystan]

Pretty sure the people at IAG would have viewed the 1920 DOBS English with a 30x loupe before describing it with a Dig behind kings head..Paul's been around for yonks and would know the difference between a plan-die flaw and dig..

[nealeffendi]

A die flaw normally will not stop a coin getting a grade, a ding, scratch or gouge will and when I saw that image my assumption was it was a nail. Serinitystan is right, no way an auctioneer would damage the marketability of a 4 figure coin

[serenitystan]

Seems PCGS makeup there own rules regarding grading. A coin with a scratch,ding, gouge etc, should still receive a grade with details..They do it with banknotes that have been cleaned,pressed,pinhole,repaired tear,thinning etc etc...

[Basilstate]

Not that it matters but i've been collecting pre-dec for over 60 years,i learnt a long time ago to trust your own eyes,you won't always be correct but it saves a lot of grief in the long run.
This is extremely important especially in the case of online Auctions,relying on poor quality Pics. and the Auctioneers opinion,no matter his/her bona-fides is a recipe for disaster.

We need a better Pic. for a A$3000 Coin.

[serenitystan]

Hi Basil, I agree...Purchasing raw coins + banknotes from auction houses and dealers regarding descriptions and pictures can be a recipe for disaster or a big win. Best to do it the old way by viewing in person with the naked eye and magnifier..Slim pickings on quality pre- decimals today as most are now in slabs...

[autocoupler]

Speaking about buying raw coins from images etc. The two pics below are of the same coin. The first is the image supplied by a leading auction house late last year, the second is the PCGS pic after grading. I was initially surprised there wasn't much interest in the coin, even the estimate wasn't what I thought it might be which in my opinion should have been way above my pay grade. In the end I did place a hopeful late bid and won the coin. When it arrived in the post, I soon realised why. 

Anyhow, off it went to the plastic factory and came back MS63RB. So, I'm happy enough as the chances of me acquiring something in this grade was slime to nil.    

[WavyTwenty]

Speaking about buying raw coins from images etc. The two pics below are of the same coin. The first is the image supplied by a leading auction house late last year, the second is the PCGS pic after grading. I was initially surprised there wasn't much interest in the coin, even the estimate wasn't what I thought it might be which in my opinion should have been way above my pay grade. In the end I did place a hopeful late bid and won the coin. When it arrived in the post, I soon realised why. 

Anyhow, off it went to the plastic factory and came back MS63RB. So, I'm happy enough as the chances of me acquiring something in this grade was slime to nil.   

Wow, one would almost think that they are pictures of different coins.

Thanks for showing, was very interesting.

[serenitystan]

Nice lucky pickup Auto..This is why auctions + dealers do not use the same photo technology as PCGS..