High priced 1931 drop 1 London Penny?

[nealeffendi]

Hi Fred
The original penny was a 1929 Indian as the 4th bead (pearl) on the leading edge of the crown is slightly larger than the others (rules out 1924 and 1927 which was chipped) and for obvious reasons a 1930 penny isn't profitable to turn into a 1931. And as Eric pointed out the '31 is FBL.

[Mister T]

Drake Sterling has one too at the moment I think.
I don't go seeking them out but it seems like there have been a few more for sale this year than normal.

[fred lever]

Hi Neal, thanks for that,  i'll do a bit more research on the types to understand the geographies a bit better.
I've just got this feeling that 2 obverse dies were involved at the time.
Yeah, fancy chopping a 1930 up to make a 31D1In !!!!
I guess with any questionable coin a close examination of the actual coin in hand and under the microscope to see if the 3 and 1 are glued on is the only was to be sure!
Fascinating coin and worth discussion.
Fred.

[Nevol]

As there were 2 threads re this topic, I have merged both threads into this one, so the thread that was named High Priced.... no longer exists, but ALL the content is still in this thread in order by date of posting.

[Basil]

I guess with any questionable coin a close examination of the actual coin in hand and under the microscope to see if the 3 and 1 are glued on is the only was to be sure!
Fascinating coin and worth discussion.
Fred.

Yeah,certainly an interesting Coin.
A few Red flags with the original Ebay listing,Pictures for a $15,000 Coin are a joke,the depression under the '31' and the inability to ID the dot after 'S' ,all are warning signs.
I'll state the obvious,the easiest way to fake one of these is to  manipulate/adjust the '1' on an aligned Indian 31,the 'person' responsible for this one has gone to a lot of trouble with the donor Coin.
All that is assuming it is indeed a altered date coin and all the evidence so far seems to confirm that.

[acrellin]

Hi Fred
The original penny was a 1929 Indian as the 4th bead (pearl) on the leading edge of the crown is slightly larger than the others (rules out 1924 and 1927 which was chipped) and for obvious reasons a 1930 penny isn't profitable to turn into a 1931. And as Eric pointed out the '31 is FBL.

So is the current thought that:

A. The date (or a section thereof) of a 1929 Indian obverse penny has had removed and replaced with that of a 1931 dropped 1? or

B. Alternatively, have two halves of these pennnies been adhered together?

What about:

C. Images of two different coins have been used in the listing?

[Unicorn]

Good to see you posting Acrellin!

It's certainly an interesting one. Neal's info on the large bead certainly helps identify the obverse and I think Eric's observation of the darkness on the date area on the reverse suggests some "heat". Basil's first pic on page 4 seems to show a depression around the date area (especially to the right), which I feel gives Eric's altered date theory a firm foundation.

[fred lever]

Thanks for all the thoughts I reckon that is about as far as you can go without examining the coin directly.
The point about multiple coins shown in a listing for one coin is well taken.

Fred Lever.

[Basil]

Hi Fred
The original penny was a 1929 Indian as the 4th bead (pearl) on the leading edge of the crown is slightly larger than the others (rules out 1924 and 1927 which was chipped) and for obvious reasons a 1930 penny isn't profitable to turn into a 1931. And as Eric pointed out the '31 is FBL.

Here's a couple of 1929 Indians i found at short notice,scanner is playing up colour wise.

[fred lever]

Thanks for the 29 scans Basil.
In the same spirit as my CAB article on the 1930 I'll do one on the 1931.
 I would like any one with access to a L 1931 d1 I or a link to a good image of BOTH Sides of a single coin  to send that to me via email or post. A high quality JPG or similar would be great. I don't expect to get as many replies as I did with the 1930!
But I would like to see as much of the type as I can.
Thanks Fred.

[Basil]

Thanks for the 29 scans Basil.

No worries,my good scanner won't work with Win 10 latest updates but i'll sort it when i get a chance.

I'm fairly certain 'Echinda' has a dropped Indian or 2 if you wish to contact him and Wynyard Coins apparently had 3 for sale a couple of weeks ago.

[autocoupler]

This is an ebay special from a few years back with it's cozzies off.  :biggrin:

[fred lever]

Thanks Auto!
Fred.

[Unicorn]

Nice penny Auto! :good:

[Basil]

These links have been posted before but i'll throw them in this Thread for further Info. down the track.

https://www.sterlingcurrency.com.au/research/1931-indian-penny-dropped-1-reverse-less-1000-were-struck

https://www.drakesterling.com/sold-coins/products/1931-dropped-1-penny-with-indian-obverse-die

https://smallsauctions.com/the-remarkable-benchmark-1931-dropped-1-indian-obverse-penny/