1919 Double Dot Scan.

[Basil]

I thought i might throw this request in while the forum is quiet,a year(?) or so back one of our members posted a scan/Pic. of a book or brochure from the early 1960's where the author stated "he doubted the 1919 DD was a genuine variety" or something like that.
I downloaded a copy but now can't find it or the Thread it was originally in,if anyone remembers the relevant Thread or the name of the Author or Book i would be grateful. TIA....

[Mister T]

I was going to say https://www.australian-coins.net/showthread.php?tid=4528&highlight=gilbert+heyde but I see that was your thread. Do you remember any other details about the book?

[Basil]

Thanks for making the effort to reply MrT.,i went thru.many Threads on here but couldn't find it but someone went to the trouble of downloading a scan about a year ago.It was a page from a Coin guide that was printed in the early 1960's(IIRC) and the author cast doubt on the legitimacy of the 1919 DD as a variety.
I downloaded a copy at the time but now can't find it amongst the hundreds of pages i've collected since the Internet began.

[nealeffendi]

I might be able to help.
The earliest reference to the 1919.//. that I can find is in John Deans Australian Coin Varieties Catalogue (1st Ed.). On page 38 at P19G the description is: Melbourne. Dot under bottom scroll, dot above top scroll. English die obverse, curved-base letters reverse. (Dots occur in various positions.) This coin is regarded by many collectors to be a false variety. The top dot is almost always surrounded by depression, as if a punch-die has been used. The 1920 double-dot variety bears no resemblance, nor is there any other mint pellet in the Australian series that bears resemblance. It is, despite these doubts, a very rare coin and necessary to a complete collection.
The prices were 140/- for F, 200/- for VF, 15 quid for EF and 25 quid for UNC.
Kersting (1965) includes the 1919.//. in his list at 4, 6 and 10 quid for F, VF and Uncirc respectively. I'm fairly certain that Kersting was published some months after Dean.
J Hunt Deacon (1961 and earlier) didn't mention the double dot for 1919 so it is safe to assume that the variety was unknown (or dismissed as a false variety?) to collectors until after early 1960s.
I have looked in catalogues such as Spinks (I looked at every issue from 1919 to the late '20s) and old coin society journals (NSW and SA) to find any reference to the variety and came up with nothing to indicate that it was even suggested as a possible variety. J Hunt Deacon was the doyen of Australian coins and a member of all the societies for decades (so I presume that any unidentified varieties would soon come to his attention).

[Basil]

Thanks Neal,that's it,i don't have that Book,any chance of a scan of the relevant page when you get some free time?
There was a more aggressive article in a Coin publication around the same time,the author implied the Dot was added post mint to cash in on the popularity of the 1920 DD,probably because some 1919 DD had a blob(possibly early mint egs) over the top scroll that was very crude.All this speculation ended by the mid 1960's when all major publications had it listed as a genuine variety.

[Fordprefect]

Thanks Neal,that's it,i don't have that Book,any chance of a scan of the relevant page when you get some free time?

Copyright is stll current on that book, but a Single Page does not breach copyright. :angel:

[Basil]

That's it,much appreciated FP.

[robbiegal]

if the book is still copyrighted
then why on earth can't we buy it somewhere?
it needs to be reprinted
a great retirement task for moi perhaps

[nealeffendi]

if the book is still copyrighted
then why on earth can't we buy it somewhere?
it needs to be reprinted
a great retirement task for moi perhaps

They can be picked up on sleezebay for $20-40 on a regular basis (I got 2 that way). Just go to Coins and then its subsection publications. Saw one there in decent nick a few days ago.
Or contact the publisher/rights holder and see if they will sell you the rights cheaply so you can reprint it. Only problem is they might not still have the photographic plates and the type might have been lead or whatever they used 50 years ago.
Maybe get the rights cheaply and do a high resolution scan of one in good nick and put it on a CD with other old coin related catalogues.

[robbiegal]

thanks!! great advice
i know a printer as well

[Fordprefect]

thanks!! great advice
i know a printer as well

There was a mob in SA offering PDF form of the book
possibly IS Wright ? The price wasn't Right though.

From memory it would be cheaper to source a used copy as Neal suggested.

It was AFS Coins at the very bottom of the PDf and it's photocopys not PDF.

http://www.afscoins.com/images/pdf/Australian%20Coin%20Varieties.pdf

[r9453]

It was AFS Coins at the very bottom of the PDf and it's photocopys not PDF.

Would I be right in saying that is technically a breach of copyright? Otherwise anyone could scan an entire book and market it. The idea of tracking down the copyright holder seems like a good one but probably a lot of work. Photocopies are so 20th century, scans are a much better option.

Australian Coin Varieties Reference Books

"Australian Pre-Decimal Coin Varieties" - Ian McConnelly. 96 pages (Latest Renniks Edition) $29.95

"Renniks Australian Coin & Banknote Guide" – Dion H. Skinner. (Scarce 1973 Seventh Edition with extensive photos, illustrations & references to pre-decimal coin varieties). 188 pages. As new $65.00

"The 1965 Australian Coin Varieties Catalogue" – John Dean. (Scarce 1965 catalogue of pre-decimal coin varieties with "Hundreds of new and important varieties with liberal illustrations" Extensive photos, illustrations & references. Iconic publication. 61 pages. As new $135.00
As Above, but photocopied 45.00

"Foster's Price Calalogue of Australian Coin Varieties" - Derek J. Foster. (Scarce 1960's catalogue of pre-decimal coin varieties with "Lists &
Values of Over 700 Varieties, Die Breaks, Flaws, etc." Some illustrations & references. Scarce publication. 35 pages $145.00
As Above, but photocopied 30.00

[Basil]

Would I be right in saying that is technically a breach of copyright?

It would have to be unless they got permission to do so,Copyright Laws changed in Oz in the 1990's but still a minefield for the average Joe.
The Web Master of one the first Stamp Forums i posted on in the late 1990's was paranoid about Copyright esp. some Photos from Books.

[autocoupler]

I see Edlins have listed a 1919 double dot graded VF in their next auction. If it's a typical VF with basically a full centre diamond, these are hard to come by.

Are there any opinions that lean toward these coins having a dished strike? Have seen quite a few that display a nice reverse, but the obverse often has an excessively worn band and centre diamond in the Kings crown.

[Basil]

Yeah,i've never seen a Unc. specimen that you can get with single/no dot egs.,not sure why and also not sure why it took 40 years to be ID by the Coin buffs,its not like its hard to spot,most have the big dot above the top scroll thats hard to miss.
I found one on my Paper run in the early 1960's and have had an interest in them ever since,valuable Coin in those days.