Pre decimal value - where is it heading?

[robbiegal]

PCGS is losing it's mystique where mostly only the rare/r coin collectors went to be assured of grading consistency and purity vis-à-vis - cleaning, doctored surfaces, fakes, precious metal purity assured i.e. Gold Mohars etc  etc

some of the new is wearing off the crystal chandelier

it is becoming for want of a better word somewhat "common" - i believe it is being downright downgraded by less than a handful of business submitters - no class about the venture - just send bulk, unsorted, package into slabs and sell fast to who ever steps up for a bulk lot buy to sell on quickly

no style - no face to face charming sell by well dressed handsome young (or in between) coin dealers

I like my internet sales but I also seek out my face to face, chat, charm, friendship side of sales

I think that is why people like pages like facebook - it adds a human side to the sell , they can engage, chat look at photos of the sellers and so on - buy form others who they relate to

anyways, pcgs is here to stay, big time submitters for the time being are here to stay&  pcgs have to be careful to NOT be seen to manipulate the market so if joe blow submits a container load of coins.. well they just slab and charge for the service  - no questions asked

it's business and they probably do the same for the USA marketplace

[kchan1111]

"The final walkthrough of the grades was pretty interesting"

i agree..

.. had dings in wrong place ...

.. AU details obv. cleaned ... rev. is original ... if less cleaned might have netted it 53..

...obv. is most important side of coin ... grade the obv....

:scratch_one-s_head::scratch_one-s_head:

The first and third one are logical. That's my understanding as well.

But the second one....... would be interesting to know if someone has submitted a lot of NGC slabs to PCGS for crossover notice a lot of coins coming back as cleaned.

[drakesterling]

But the second one....... would be interesting to know if someone has submitted a lot of NGC slabs to PCGS for crossover notice a lot of coins coming back as cleaned.

Yes, I have submitted a small amount to PCGS for crossover. Some NGC coins fail to cross because PCGS considers them to be cleaned. It hasn't been many, but enough for me to closely check NGC coins before I buy.

Eric

[kchan1111]

On any individual coin it's highly unlikely that all 3 miss something but when you consider the sheer number of coins they grade per year then the likeliness increases.

Well the probability is the same, but the absolute number of misses goes up with the number of coins graded. Unless, the increase in volume increases the error rate of individual graders. But you think they would hire more?
Here is another video of grading walkthrough. This time is the PCGS grading challenge at the Anaheim show.

https://youtu.be/cuSk3Mrb1uA

Like to find more of these if anyone come across them.

[trout]

But you think they would hire more?

I wouldn't think that there would be too many good graders looking for work and finding new graders would be pretty hard.

[kchan1111]

But you think they would hire more?

I wouldn't think that there would be too many good graders looking for work and finding new graders would be pretty hard.

Can train new ones.

[robbiegal]

they don't seem to scout for Australian experts

[trout]

they don't seem to scout for Australian experts

They don't want our people to Show them Up, That's all :angel:

[ausproofs]

Hey Folks,

Many be time to re lookat this subject again... it is very quiet in here so bit of activity cant be bad. Secondly I have seen some very interesting trends in the market lately. I have seen a dramatically reduced price realised when it comes to pre decimal coins compared to 2-3 year ago.

1926 shilling MS64 ~ $1000
1922 Sixpence MS65 ~ $2200
1920 Shilling MS 63 ~ $ 1300 and then $3500 (that was an interesting scenario)
1920 Sixpence MS64 ~ $2000
1917 Florin MS64 ~ $1250
1918 Florin failing to sell for ~ $800

These are some examples comes to mind without doing too much research. If you have any comparable examples, please share and join the discussion.

Other thing I have noticed is it is all the same collectors bidding for the same coin... :sun_bespectacled:

Thanks folks...

[Basil]

Hey Folks,

Many be time to re look at this subject again... it is very quiet in here so bit of activity cant be bad. Secondly I have seen some very interesting trends in the market lately. I have seen a dramatically reduced price realised when it comes to pre decimal coins compared to 2-3 year ago.

Yeah,mostly agree,always been ebbs & flows but the rise of the slabbed Coins and the Chinese fakes have all affected the market IMO.
The average collector now has the wealth of knowledge available on the Internet so the ability for a Dealer to achieve 'cream' pricing is just about gone,Ebay's free market is also setting the price in most areas of Notes and Coins for the hobby collector,again IMO.

[ausproofs]

Absolutely Basil. I think the dealers are the ones mostly impacted I would have assumed ? Some of them have invested in coins they may have an issue selling in the open market ? There are multiple auction houses in the market now, giving collectors an opportunity to test the waters and pay what the market is ready to pay rather than a price set by an individual. Good for the collectors but bad if they want to sell....

[Triggersmob]

I won't have to worry about coins like that.
They are way out of my price market.

[ausproofs]

I won't have to worry about coins like that.
They are way out of my price market.

I hear you.. However the next tier coins (ie MS 61, 62 as well as good AU 58 coins ) go for lot better prices than what it was a few years ago. I have seen 1934, 35 sixpence coins in MS62, 63 go for a few hundred $$$ where as AU58 coins go for less than $100. Good for collectors...

[nealeffendi]

I have 200+ PCGS slabs and keep a record of the date and price. The prices I've paid these past 18 months are often half of what I paid for the same coin 3 years ago.
For example, the Canberra florin
For NGC
NGC MS65 22/4/15 $220 (Benchmark)
NGC MS65 1/7/17 $183.20 (Trout)
For PCGS
PCGS MS64 6/1/14 $259.90
PCGS MS64 21/2/15 USD 111.95 (about $150)
PCGS MS64 21/6/16 $136.28
PCGS MS64 4/2/16 $138.20
PCGS MS65+ ?/4/17 $720
PCGS MS65 1/10/17 $165.60
PCGS MS64+ 6/2/18 $142
PCGS MS64 5/3/18 $99
So today I can get MS65 for less than MS64 cost 4 years ago. In 2014 any MS64 under $300 was a good pickup as I had to miss out on many that went for higher than that. Dealers BIN prices were over $400. Drake (Eric) currently has a MS64 at $150 and a MS65 at $395.
In raw coins I paid under $45 last month for 4 Canberras, one is gEF and the other 3 will make MS63 (possibly MS64) when I send them off. Why was there no bidding competition for those coins?
Great time for those of us who are assembling high grade sets. For sellers however...

[ausproofs]

Good observations there Neal. I have stopped going too high for raw coins now. Reason being why take a risk when I can buy already graded coins for same or lesser value ? I also see most of the folks grabbing a bargain are collectors who spend the time looking harder and done the hard work. As I mentioned, I am competing with the same 2-3 people all the time for higher grade coins...