1920 English Obverse

[r9453]

Agreed, I was loose with my language, die cracks can develop over time. Thanks again for checking my work.

[Basil]

Interesting coin,you don't see these every day,i didn't think it was possible to get a clip from 1920 Pennies because of how the blanks were manufactured but i may be getting my Info. mixed up as this clip looks genuine,Blakesly side of things is a bit iffy thou.Hard to get a good shot of the clip.The rim error over "BRITT" is a bit different on this Coin to other eg's i have as well.
Anyone seen this before or has an opinion? TIA

[r9453]

i didn't think it was possible to get a clip from 1920 Pennies because of how the blanks were manufactured

I can't help with your question Basil but I have to ask how the blanks were manufactured?

[autocoupler]

Me either, but as you indicated the Blakesly effect doesn't appear to be apparent IMO. No doubt it's a filled dot below given the rim flaw over BRITT, and interestingly the die crack through IND to my eyes has not happened as yet, but can just make out the depressions below and left of bottom scroll and below P. Interesting coin Basil :good:

[ausjack]

Could it be an end of sheet coin or is there some other way to pick them :scratch_one-s_head:

[Basil]

i didn't think it was possible to get a clip from 1920 Pennies because of how the blanks were manufactured

I can't help with your question Basil but I have to ask how the blanks were manufactured?

I'm not sure myself,i just have it in the back of my mind that they weren't punched out of sheets like in later Mint practices but someone on here should know one way or the other.

Could it be an end of sheet coin or is there some other way to pick them :scratch_one-s_head:

Not sure AJ,i'll try and get some better Pics. on the W/end.

[nealeffendi]

That edge looks like PMD, an edge clip wouldn't show such well formed denticles at the clip, plus no weakness on the opposing side. Perhaps a kid rubbed the edge against concrete 60-80 years ago. Have a look at the 1925 penny with an edge clip that Trout posted a few months ago to see what a genuine edge clip penny looks like.
The mints produced their own bronze by melting down the copper, tin and zinc, rolled it, stamped out the blanks etc. Even the metal (was mostly from local mines and smelters (such as Cu from South Australia).

[Basil]

The mints produced their own bronze by melting down the copper, tin and zinc, rolled it, stamped out the blanks etc. Even the metal (was mostly from local mines and smelters (such as Cu from South Australia).

Ok,but i read an article many years ago that procedure for stamping blanks when the Oz Mints first started minting Coins was changed some where along line to a more efficient,less waste and more blanks per sheet, method and that's why its rare to see a genuine clip in the early Coins.
I will try and find the article,copy may be on my Win.98 machine,and post along with some better Pics. of the Coin.The clip part looks fine,very similar to the box of clipped coins i have but the Blakesly side of things just looks like damage which is a worry.

[r9453]

I imagine quite a bit of machinery was required to produce the alloy, roll it and stamp out the blanks. Presumably it was rolled into sheets and then cut up into strips. No doubt a lot of manual labour was required as well but that was probably plentiful enough.

[Basil]

I imagine quite a bit of machinery was required to produce the alloy, roll it and stamp out the blanks. Presumably it was rolled into sheets and then cut up into strips. No doubt a lot of manual labour was required as well but that was probably plentiful enough.

Yeah,IIRC the first copper blanks used at the Oz. Mints came from India,it took a while for Oz produced blanks to start flowing and again IIRC they changed production methods more than once as originally they were gearing up for square coinage and it took 2-3 years before the protagionists for square currency were overcome.As i stated previously i have a copy of a article on early coin minting in Oz somewhere,i'll try and find it as my memory is a bit vague on the subject.

[nealeffendi]

I imagine quite a bit of machinery was required to produce the alloy, roll it and stamp out the blanks. Presumably it was rolled into sheets and then cut up into strips. No doubt a lot of manual labour was required as well but that was probably plentiful enough.

Yeah,IIRC the first copper blanks used at the Oz. Mints came from India,it took a while for Oz produced blanks to start flowing and again IIRC they changed production methods more than once as originally they were gearing up for square coinage and it took 2-3 years before the protagionists for square currency were overcome.As i stated previously i have a copy of a article on early coin minting in Oz somewhere,i'll try and find it as my memory is a bit vague on the subject.

I know that Sydney was making their own blanks for the 1920 production. There was an initial batch of dies from India (plus hubs) for the 1920 penny. I doubt that blanks (bronze, not copper) were ever sent from India, it isn't hard to smelt bronze and the mints had all the necessary equipment to roll and stamp as they had been doing it for gold and silver.

[Basil]

I know that Sydney was making their own blanks for the 1920 production.

Ok,i won't argue as without actual documentation/proof your statements hold as much water as mine.The Indian blanks,again IIRC,were offloaded in Melb. but may have ended up in Sydney,who knows.The best thing is for me is to find the article i've been referring to and post here,i have it somewhere but wasted a couple of hours looking for it last night,i think Gilbert Heyde had something to do with it so some of the older members on here may have a copy or remember it.

[stevo1962]

Found one in a bulklot this week.Not sure if PCGS will grade it though

[Basil]

Yeah,looks like the same Dies as the 'çlipped' coin i just posted,depression under 'P' and lower Scroll on reverse and similar Rim disturbance over 'Britt' but yours has the die crack thru 'ÍND'.I'm sure its gradeable.

[nealeffendi]

I know that Sydney was making their own blanks for the 1920 production.

Ok,i won't argue as without actual documentation/proof your statements hold as much water as mine.The Indian blanks,again IIRC,were offloaded in Melb. but may have ended up in Sydney,who knows.The best thing is for me is to find the article i've been referring to and post here,i have it somewhere but wasted a couple of hours looking for it last night,i think Gilbert Heyde had something to do with it so some of the older members on here may have a copy or remember it.

The Sydney mint records from that era record under Plants and Melting for the 7th July 1920 Quotation for Penny Bar Moulds. The Working Ledger for the 11th of January 1921 records last penny bars and for 12th January 1921 the last scissel from coining department. I think that counts as actual documentation/proof (scissel is the webbing left from the sheets after the rounds are stamped out).
Now IF any blanks were sent from India [/i]then they might have been offloaded in Melbourne (for the initial run of 1919 pennies).