Two Cent Clips?

markn · October 02, 2015, 07:21:40 PM

I took a punt on these two the other day, I was fairly certain one was the real deal, the other not so much. What do you think?

Unicorn · October 02, 2015, 07:38:12 PM

I'd think the 1979 is real.

Not sure about the 1980 as the strike seems really clear/sharp/strong right to the edge on the reverse and the clipped / flattened edge seems to have gone beyond the normal circumference of the coin like you might expect if it had been squished later on.

I really like the hairs on the back of Lizzie's neck on the 1979 though!

Fulvio · October 02, 2015, 07:39:07 PM

Quote from: 'markn' pid='80284' dateline='1443779500'What do you think?

Fascinating errors, both of them.

Without seeing the edges...

The '79 is an odd shape, but does show the lack of detail you'd expect from that much metal missing.

The '80 I don't think is a clip. It looks to me like the planchet split after being struck, because the detail is intact. But it looks like your classic cold shut, at least from that angle, not a shed job.

Was I close? :diablo:

markn · October 02, 2015, 07:51:41 PM

Yeah, I was fairly certain the first one was a genuine elliptical clip. There's strong metal flow lines all over it, I haven't seen many decimal elliptical clips so it's a good find.

The second one I wasn't really clear about. There were a couple of indicators from the sellers images that made me think it might be real but I really wasn't 100% sure. However, now that i have it in hand it's clearly a real error. Pretty sure it separated before striking. Here's a second image with some arrows pointing at areas of interest.

Unicorn · October 02, 2015, 07:55:21 PM

Nope, I was wrong with the circumference bit as I just put it into photostudio and the flattened edge fits into the circumference. Maybe a bit of an illusion there (or just my eyes).

For me the jury is still out on the 1980, but McDuck might be drawing the right conclusion.

stevo1962 · October 02, 2015, 07:59:40 PM

Bloody nice finds Mark and no doubt you would have paid the right price.Are you going
to get them slabbed?

Unicorn · October 02, 2015, 08:03:26 PM

Not sure what to make of what appears to be the rim heading inwards on the 1980? (Might be just me again though).

Fulvio · October 02, 2015, 08:13:28 PM

Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='80291' dateline='1443782006'Not sure what to make of what appears to be the rim heading inwards on the 1980? (Might be just me again though).

I think what you're seeing is in the 3rd dimension.

Mark, any chance of some different angles on it?

Or.. wait... I have an idea...

I really need to see this in hand... Can I afford it? :angel:

markn · October 02, 2015, 08:14:10 PM

Quote from: 'Unicorn' pid='80291' dateline='1443782006'Not sure what to make of what appears to be the rim heading inwards on the 1980? (Might be just me again though).

No, it's not just you. Can't really explain it either. The metal flow indicated by the red arrows have convinced me it's real and it must have separated before it was struck. The rims I can't explain.

markn · October 02, 2015, 08:14:57 PM

Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='80292' dateline='1443782608'I think what you're seeing is in the 3rd dimension.

Mark, any chance of some different angles on it?

Or.. wait... I have an idea...

I really need to see this in hand... Can I afford it? :angel:

No, you can't afford it right now as I am still in love with it.

What's your theory? What angles do you want?

markn · October 02, 2015, 08:16:25 PM

Quote from: 'stevo1962' pid='80290' dateline='1443781780'Bloody nice finds Mark and no doubt you would have paid the right price.Are you going
to get them slabbed?

Perhaps. I'm still a bit hesitant about getting errors graded by PCGS, the fees are $100 or more per coin and just getting worse with the exchange rates every day. Perhaps when I am ready to sell some errors I'll think about getting a few more graded.

With regards to these two errors, I only think the 1979 is worth the effort.

Fulvio · October 02, 2015, 08:56:27 PM

Quote from: 'markn' pid='80294' dateline='1443782697'No, you can't afford it right now as I am still in love with it.

What's your theory? What angles do you want?

Damn! Never get between a man and his true love, eh? :diablo:

lets see...

Edge on, of course.
45° would help.
And maybe top down of the edge, to see the angle on that odd rim.

What I'm thinking is there are three possibilties...

The piece broke off before striking.
Or afterwards.
Or maybe during.

I can't see it as a before, because there's no metal flow to speak of.

But that rim does look odd, doesn't it? So lets try and figure out where the metal went, and why.

Quote from: 'markn' pid='80295' dateline='1443782785'I'm still a bit hesitant about getting errors graded by PCGS

Hmm, I see absolutely no value in getting something which is unique graded at all. What are they going to tell you? Its MS-whatever? So?

You

CAN'T

get

a better one!

Total waste of money unless the coin is repeatable.

markn · October 02, 2015, 09:07:54 PM

Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='80298' dateline='1443785187'I can't see it as a before, because there's no metal flow to speak of.

Look at the picture with the arrows on the reverse. The frill above the lizard's eye where the arrows are. There's a significant amount of metal flow there. Also, look at all the features in relief on the reverse that end up in the missing region of the coin (again indicated with arrows). They all taper down towards the missing region, which is fairly typical when part of the coin is missing.

The observations make me fairly certain that the missing part was actually missing when the coin was struck.

Fulvio · October 02, 2015, 10:17:27 PM

Quote from: 'markn' pid='80299' dateline='1443785874'The frill above the lizard's eye

Ah. Yes, sorry.. I had to dig up an image and compare them side by side. I see it now.

I'd still like to see that edge though.

markn · October 03, 2015, 10:11:28 AM

Quote from: 'Fulvio' pid='80303' dateline='1443790047'I'd still like to see that edge though.