WWII Internment Camps 5 shillings

kchan1111 · March 02, 2015, 09:40:27 PM

The upcoming Noble auction has a WWII Internment Camps 5 shillings.

http://www.noble.com.au/auctions/lot?id=333368

It's supposedly graded by PCGS as MS64RB. But it doesn't show up on PCGS population statistics?

http://www.pcgs.com/pop/detail.aspx?c=5157

I am pretty sure I am looking at the right one? Or am I going blind?

Sapyx · March 03, 2015, 01:24:25 PM

As I understand it, PCGS pop reports for world coins can be unreliable - they didn't start counting them until a few years after they started grading world coins.

Meanwhile, I'm left wondering how a coin with obvious verdigris patches made an MS grade at all.

trout · March 03, 2015, 01:59:06 PM

Quote from: 'Sapyx' pid='67997' dateline='1425351265'As I understand it, PCGS pop reports for world coins can be unreliable - they didn't start counting them until a few years after they started grading world coins.

Meanwhile, I'm left wondering how a coin with obvious verdigris patches made an MS grade at all.

Maybe the verdigris "Grew" after it was slabbed.
Normally a coin in this condition would come back in a Genuine UNC Environmental Damage slab or bodybagged.

oh my florin · March 03, 2015, 03:48:12 PM

Unfortunately it does happen on coppers which have been slabbed. Verdigris can occur from a number of chemicals primarily Chlorine when it reacts with oxygen and water. As such what I believe has happened is it has been subjected to chlorine contamination prior to slabbing and then stored in a water rich environment after slabbing giving no indication of Verdigris damage upon grading. However I do believe that the PCGS Guarantee extends to Verdigris developing post slabbing.

purplepennyhunter · March 03, 2015, 04:07:43 PM

I wish they'd put the slab numbers in auctions so you could accurately authenticate wtf they are selling. I found the RD and RB numbers on the PCGS pop but there's no coins slabbed with those numbers. Strange. Also strange that it appears to be in a pronged holder which are newer.

robbiegal · March 03, 2015, 05:46:09 PM

well that verdigris is quite common on these tokens

I can say that I have seen heaps of slabbed coins (not tokens) with verdigris

copper corrodes - doesn't need a chlorine dip to set it off

kchan1111 · March 04, 2015, 01:37:42 PM

I actually called them up and ask for the cert no.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/29182733/

The photos on PCGS suggest that the verdigris were there at the time of the slabbing.

It was listed as "ND 5 Shil KM-Tn5.1 Internment Camp, RB(Regular Strike)" rather than "(1943) 5 Shil KM-Tn5.1, BN(Regular Strike)"

serial · March 04, 2015, 01:43:01 PM

nicely done kchan
could be that PCGS is giving a bit of leeway on this coin given that they commonly have this issue? they may also think that the verdigris is inert?

purplepennyhunter · March 04, 2015, 02:20:51 PM

There are 2 PCGS coin numbers for that RB coin and no coins for the one listed in the population report.

634853, and 523510

There are a few coins that have more than one coin number by accident.

kchan1111 · March 04, 2015, 07:51:08 PM

Quote from: 'serial' pid='68111' dateline='1425438781'nicely done kchan
could be that PCGS is giving a bit of leeway on this coin given that they commonly have this issue? they may also think that the verdigris is inert?

RG seems to think so. I am no expert.

Were all of these minted in 1943? Otherwise how can they tell the date?