Verdigris treatment experiment

[JeffH]

I have just received some Verdi-Care [thanks Nancy] and am keen to try it.
So, I have sorted out some coins from my scrap tin to try it with.

I think it will be interesting to share my results so I am posting "before" pictures here.

I have also had a think how Verdi-Care works and had an idea for a product I have (for a completely different purpose) that possibly could have a similar effect. So, I have two groups of coins to treat. I have no idea really if the other treatment will do anything (or completely strip the patina) but I will soon know! I tried to make both groups as similar as possible.

All coins have been cleaned with water, acetone and then xylene.
The brown stains on the top 2¢ in each group are rust -from a shed find; obviously a water leak and some steel object(s) sitting on the coins. I gave several hundred of these a hit with the ultrasonic cleaner with water and a drop of detergent. Changed the water several times until it was clear. Some, the rust completely lifted; others were like these two.

So, here goes...





Wish me luck,
Jeff
PS. Not another secret potion! Won't these idiots ever learn?
Well, treatment done.
A drop on each coin and wipe over the surface with a cotton bud.
Leave 5 minutes, a poke with a toothpick to worst areas and leave another 5 minutes. Pat dry with a paper towel.
I will leave them 24 hours to fully dry before taking more photos.

The cotton tip discoloured (more with the Verdi-Care than the other) indicating something was being removed.
Subjectively the coins do look better (again the Verdi-Care seems better) but, probably some residual moisture and, wetting crummy coins is a sure way of (temporarily) improving appearance.

Come back in 24 hours and see the result.

Jeff

[Robster]

Will follow your project with interest JeffH.!

[Goldseeker]

Interesting.

[Bigfellani5]

I have always just used olive oil. Did a 1923 1/2d that took me over 2 years. Very interested in the outcome

[trout]

I have always just used olive oil. Did a 1923 1/2d that took me over 2 years. Very interested in the outcome

 As far as I am aware olive oil contains acid.
I assume that olive oil is used on "ancients" to get rid of the build up of detritus from being buried for centuries.
I don't consider using olive oil on modern (19th centaury and upwards) coins to be a good practice.
I have put a few old coppers in olive oil for a while and YES they do look better but they also don't look quite "Kosher", Veiwed under a USB gizmo where the verdigis has been removed there is evidence of pitting.
My best advice is simply don't buy nasty green coins because at the end of the day you can't turn a pig's ear into a silk purse :good:

[JeffH]

Well, both treatments had an effect;
•Green/blue verdigris no longer visible.
•Dark areas where verdigris was. Almost invisible for very light verdigris but much more noticeable on heavily infected areas.
•Noticeable scale where verdigris was heaviest -only to be expected, you can't expect to restore an already badly damaged surface.
•Coins now have a "sheen" (wet looking appearance). Looks slightly unnatural but not unattractive.
•Overall patina of coins seems to be very slightly lighter.
•No affect on rust stains. I was hoping but not really expecting with them.
•Verdi-Care, I think, has improved the "eye appeal" slightly more.

I am giving them a soak in water now, to remove any residue, will let them dry completely, and report back tomorrow.





Jeff
PS. Shane, I will be over your way next Saturday. Would like to meet you. What are your opening hours?
An interim report from rinsing the coins;
•When wet they have rather a slippery feel (more so the second treatment than the Verdi-Care).
•As soon as I patted them dry some areas of blue/green verdigris re-appeared! Does seem, though, to be rather soft and yields to a toothpick. Looks rather dry and scaly underneath these patches.

Jeff

[Nevol]

Bad Thad on CCF is the developer of VerdiCare.

Instructions for the use of Verdi-Care can be found here:
http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-Instructions.pdf

I would like to draw attention to one line in those instructions:
"However, rinsing with water or other solvents after treatment is NOT needed or recommended".

The original product was VerdiGone and rinsing with Distilled water was recommended, but I think rinsing off the VerdiCare may remove the protective coating from the surface.  

I'll have to re-read all Bad Thad's relevant comments and recommendations on CCF.  There is a plethora of information, so it might take me a while.  Watch this space. :angel:

[JeffH]

You're correct Nancy. I missed that. Being the cynic I am I think that, maybe, it is not recommended as it might reverse some of the effect of masking the verdigris.

FAQ's say;
"Q: Can VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ be removed?
A: The product is water-soluble and 99.99+% of it can be removed using water. The ReAcT2â,,¢ layer is semi-permanent, just a molecule thick and invisible; it will remain on the surface after a water rinse. However, it can be removed with weakly acidic solutions (not recommended)."
and
"Q: What is ReAcT2â,,¢?
A: ReAcT2â,,¢ is a modern-day, state of the art, chemical compound that reacts with all metals to form a transparent, semi-permanent, anti-corrosion, protective layer on the coins surface. It is so safe and effective on a coin’s surface that the US Mint uses the exact same chemical technology."
I was taking my cure from that. Never mind, I have another step planned tomorrow.

Jeff

[Nevol]

I have found a bit more info:
FAQ: http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-FAQ.pdf

The ReAcT2â,,¢ will form a protective surface barrier to provide life-long protection from toning and corrosion.

Q: Does VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ leave a residue?
A: YES! The 2-stage corrosion protection system and surface conditioners will remain on the coin
surface after application. The surface may feel “slick” (but less slick than oil), rinsing with water and/or
acetone reduces this effect. Rinsing after a full drying period of 24 hours per side will remove 99.99% of
the product from the surface (not recommended).

Tip! Experiment on test coins. Try very lightly rinsing with distilled water and/or acetone after
application. This will remove most of the surface conditioners but still leave behind ReAcT2â,,¢ for
corrosion protection. Experiment to get the look you’re after!

Q: Do I need to rinse off or neutralise my coin after treating with VERDI-CAREâ,,¢?
A: NO! VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is not a dip/cleaner and is designed to remain on the coin after conservation.
Rinsing is not recommended or required. VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is designed to be safe and gentle for longterm storage.
For best results the product should remain on the coin for its life to protect and enhance the surfaces.

Other test results can be seen here:

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62434&whichpage=1  

BadThad often mentions in this Topic that he rinses with (distilled) water, acetone and occasionally Xylene, then dries with Canned Air,
so that is clearly inconsistent with the instruction sheet.  He does not always say distilled water, but I stopped on page 17 (of 27).  

More test results by other people:
http://coretj.yolasite.com/verdi-care_tests.php

http://www.cointalk.com/t47318/

[robbiegal]

I have found a bit more info:
FAQ: http://www.wizardcoinsupply.com/files/images/Verdi-Care-FAQ.pdf

The ReAcT2â,,¢ will form a protective surface barrier to provide life-long protection from toning and corrosion.

Q: Does VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ leave a residue?
A: YES! The 2-stage corrosion protection system and surface conditioners will remain on the coin
surface after application. The surface may feel “slick” (but less slick than oil), rinsing with water and/or
acetone reduces this effect. Rinsing after a full drying period of 24 hours per side will remove 99.99% of
the product from the surface (not recommended).

Tip! Experiment on test coins. Try very lightly rinsing with distilled water and/or acetone after
application. This will remove most of the surface conditioners but still leave behind ReAcT2â,,¢ for
corrosion protection. Experiment to get the look you’re after!

Q: Do I need to rinse off or neutralise my coin after treating with VERDI-CAREâ,,¢?
A: NO! VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is not a dip/cleaner and is designed to remain on the coin after conservation.
Rinsing is not recommended or required. VERDI-CAREâ,,¢ is designed to be safe and gentle for longterm storage.
For best results the product should remain on the coin for its life to protect and enhance the surfaces.

Other test results can be seen here:

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62434&whichpage=1  

BadThad often mentions in this Topic that he rinses with (distilled) water, acetone and occasionally Xylene, then dries with Canned Air,
so that is clearly inconsistent with the instruction sheet.  He does not always say distilled water, but I stopped on page 17 (of 27).  

More test results by other people:
http://coretj.yolasite.com/verdi-care_tests.php

http://www.cointalk.com/t47318/

Xylene is dangerous - why risk your health by using this chemical on coins that honestly, are not work the associated risks to 'conserve'? Museums etc would more likely use fume hoods and have safety equipment if using these dangerous chemicals. Honestly, i reckon don't go there - a bunch of rubbish coins are really not worth it.

[JeffH]

How interesting. A water rinse has returned most of the verdigris! More so with the verdi-Care than the other treatment. That does suggest my thinking, when selecting an alternate to trial, was along the right lines.
They are now all having a 12 hour soak in sealed containers (followed by a 12 hour dry-out period) to see if that makes any difference.

Jeff

[enworb]

I had read badthad saying that the product really isnt meant for hard, encrusted verdigris such as that but more so for small spots that are crusty yet.

[JeffH]

the product really isnt meant for hard, encrusted verdigris

As I said these coins are from my scrap tin and I don't expect miracles.
My aim is to establish what may be possible. So, a range of poor coins to see what degree of change can be affected.
I think the test has to extend beyond what is promised of the product to establish what it's limits are.

Jeff

[Robster]

Jeff, thankyou for going to the trouble to do something a lot of us have contemplated but put in the 'too hard basket.' I know I have at least 200 copper coins with the dreaded 'green' acne, still sitting in isolation awaiting a miracle. Perhaps we could melt them all down and make our own commemorative coins.!! Still following with interest.!

[Goldseeker]

I can remember when I threw, yes threw six or seven ice cream containers out onto the Sunshine Garbage dump that were full of half pennies and pennies that I had detected over the years.   If onlu I still had them.   Many of the coins had verdigree on them.