PCGS certifies 1916I mule halfpenny

drakesterling · October 21, 2014, 05:57:31 PM

Grades F15. Looks great, notwithstanding the image.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30730061/

stevo1962 · October 21, 2014, 06:20:27 PM

Very nice Eric . is this one of yours?

nealeffendi · October 21, 2014, 06:52:12 PM

Technically speaking, isn't the PCGS description wrong?
It is an Indian coin, not an Australian coin, and it is muled with an Australian halfpenny reverse. The clincher for that is the mule is on the blank of the Indian coin and not the Australian coin (halfpence weigh more). Or I suppose they should also list it as a wrong planchet?
A coin of this importance and even then they stuff the image up:kez_11:
So will it be on the Drake website? That is one of the best numi porn sites around.

oh my florin · October 21, 2014, 07:19:36 PM

Great coin Eric.

drakesterling · October 21, 2014, 07:25:39 PM

Sadly, it's not my coin. I'm sure it'll pop up for sale at some stage soon, though.

runway · October 21, 2014, 11:55:40 PM

http://www.pcgs.com/Pop/ValueView.aspx?s=532932

serial · October 22, 2014, 12:38:48 AM

Look at the mintage!

wwwww · October 22, 2014, 08:51:39 AM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='61209' dateline='1413879732'Technically speaking, isn't the PCGS description wrong?
It is an Indian coin, not an Australian coin, and it is muled with an Australian halfpenny reverse. The clincher for that is the mule is on the blank of the Indian coin and not the Australian coin (halfpence weigh more). Or I suppose they should also list it as a wrong planchet?
A coin of this importance and even then they stuff the image up:kez_11:
So will it be on the Drake website? That is one of the best numi porn sites around.

Mules technically belong to the country in which they were part of the production run for, in the case of the 1916 mule 1/2D, this was Australia (as they turned up for circulation in Australia).

nealeffendi · October 22, 2014, 10:19:35 AM

Walter, I have often contemplated if they were part of the intended production for Australia. The similarities of the obverse and the differences of the reverse suggests that the Indians had used the wrong obverse for our coins. But they were struck on Indian blanks so that suggests that it was for Indian coins. Perhaps the staff had 2 press lines going (1/4 Anna and halfpenny) and a bunch of dies were on the shared workbench. Easy enough to pick up the wrong die and then find you have struck an Aussie coin.
Oops, don't want a reprimand/beating from the head wallah so just toss the errors into the nearby halfpenny box and carry on.
All conjecture of course, otherwise the Indians somehow also used 1/4 Anna blanks on the halfpenny line. If so then unless they spotted that error at the same time they spotted the wrong die then a full box/barrel of halfpennies were on lightweight blanks. They will also likely have the identifying blip on the inner ring below TH.
So has anyone spotted that reverse die and then weighed the halfpenny?

autocoupler · October 22, 2014, 11:47:44 AM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='61255' dateline='1413935375'They will also likely have the identifying blip on the inner ring below TH.
So has anyone spotted that reverse die and then weighed the halfpenny?

I have a couple with this reverse, photos of which in post on another thread. Haven't weighed them though, but will get to it when next at the coin shop.

nealeffendi · October 22, 2014, 12:49:36 PM

Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='61259' dateline='1413940664'
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='61255' dateline='1413935375'They will also likely have the identifying blip on the inner ring below TH.
So has anyone spotted that reverse die and then weighed the halfpenny?

I have a couple with this reverse, photos of which in post on another thread. Haven't weighed them though, but will get to it when next at the coin shop.

I found one in my collection a few minutes ago. it is 5.55g so the right mass for a VG halfpenny. As it might be that the press was being changed from 1/4 Anna to halfpenny production it is possible that a quick glance would show a die with the Geo V head. Once some were struck then the error was spotted and the die changed. What mint worker would really know/care that the leftover 1/4 Anna blanks were being used. If there were a few hundred+ blanks left over and tens of thousands of halfpennies struck from this die then perhaps only 1 in a hundred will be lightweight. So my one halfpenny isn't conclusive but collectively if a few hundred are checked a "wrong planchett error" coin will probably turn up. Even in average grade it will be very collectable as a companion piece to the mule.
Edit to add: if a normal halfpenny with this particular reverse is found with a 4.9g mass then that will prove the 1916 mule is technically Australian (with 2 faults. wrong obverse and wrong blank) and not Indian (with one fault, wrong reverse).
Also, it might be interesting to see if other 1916-18 halfpennies are around 4.9g due to similar indifference to leftover 1/4 Anna blanks.

wwwww · October 22, 2014, 12:56:32 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='61255' dateline='1413935375'Walter, I have often contemplated if they were part of the intended production for Australia. The similarities of the obverse and the differences of the reverse suggests that the Indians had used the wrong obverse for our coins. But they were struck on Indian blanks so that suggests that it was for Indian coins. Perhaps the staff had 2 press lines going (1/4 Anna and halfpenny) and a bunch of dies were on the shared workbench. Easy enough to pick up the wrong die and then find you have struck an Aussie coin.
Oops, don't want a reprimand/beating from the head wallah so just toss the errors into the nearby halfpenny box and carry on.
All conjecture of course, otherwise the Indians somehow also used 1/4 Anna blanks on the halfpenny line. If so then unless they spotted that error at the same time they spotted the wrong die then a full box/barrel of halfpennies were on lightweight blanks. They will also likely have the identifying blip on the inner ring below TH.
So has anyone spotted that reverse die and then weighed the halfpenny?

The mule half penny was struck on an Australian blank.

autocoupler · October 25, 2014, 10:41:48 PM

Quote from: 'autocoupler' pid='61259' dateline='1413940664'
Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='61255' dateline='1413935375'They will also likely have the identifying blip on the inner ring below TH.
So has anyone spotted that reverse die and then weighed the halfpenny?

I have a couple with this reverse, photos of which in post on another thread. Haven't weighed them though, but will get to it when next at the coin shop.

Had the opportunity to weigh both coins today. One is UNC, the other is aEF, and both weighed 5.4g. Will have to get myself a set of digital scales.

nealeffendi · October 26, 2014, 02:01:52 PM

Checked back through my records, Walters right (I'm wrong:blush:),the recorded weights of the mules are higher than the 1/4 Anna, mostly lower than the halfpenny (wear?) and they vary alot (why?).
Auto, both Unc and aEF, lucky bugger.

autocoupler · October 26, 2014, 09:05:33 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='61405' dateline='1414294312'the recorded weights of the mules are higher than the 1/4 Anna, mostly lower than the halfpenny (wear?) and they vary alot (why?).

Neil, Do you think this reverse die anomaly is the result of one defective working die, or that of a hobbing die? (a hobbing die is one pressed from a master, and is used to press working dies. Correct?)

If this reverse was from just one working die, I read there may have been just 30,000 minted. Apparently that was considered the life of a die back in the day.

Was doing some ebay surfing and noticed The Purple Penny has a PCGS graded example at MS63RB
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australia-1916I-Halfpenny-1-2d-PCGS-MS63RB-Uncirculated-/201006882925?pt=AU_Coins2&hash=item2eccf1a06d