Overgraded by NGC ?

echidna · August 10, 2014, 06:47:31 PM

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231299006626?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Is it overgraded ?
Looks horrible to me.
What do you reckon...

Fr45h3R · August 10, 2014, 06:53:44 PM

Most certainly, Even with immaculate surfaces and outstanding eye appeal (not evident from photos), those kind of impacts would certainly have to limit the grade.

JeffH · August 10, 2014, 07:12:33 PM

It would easily crossover to APCGS (maybe even upgrade). :laughingneqw:

ausjack · August 10, 2014, 07:28:12 PM

JEFF DUDE not cool as I near wet me self and was gonna buy shares..ok now ya know I'm tellin porky pies, apcgs pffff :winkextra:

nealeffendi · August 10, 2014, 07:56:28 PM

Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".

trout · August 10, 2014, 08:16:15 PM

I have to agree with Neil , MS63 at best.
Far too many hits especially the ear.
NGC are normally a lot better than this and this one slipped under the radar I recon.

echidna · August 10, 2014, 08:18:01 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56650' dateline='1407666388'Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".

I would not recommend doing a warranty submission.
There is something going on.
Perhaps some legal issues...
They are very reluctant dispite the assurancies they offer.
I have done a warranty submission to NGC for a horribly overgarded coin and yep it came be the same grade.
It really was a shocker.
I also have another warranty currently at PCGS.
Over six months and no response.

trout · August 10, 2014, 08:27:48 PM

QuoteThere is something going on with warranties.
Perhaps some legal issues...
They are very reluctant dispite the assurancies they offer.
I have done a warranty submission to NGC for a horribly overgarded coin and yep it came be the same grade.
It really was a shocker.
I also have another warranty currently at PCGS.
Over six months and no response.

I imagine neither TPG is happy to admit a mistake.
They DO make them occasionally , lets face it the graders are only human and mistakes will be made every now and then.
Overall though PCGS and NGC are pretty spot on 99.99% of the time and the odd mistake like this will not stop me getting my coins graded by them :ok:
When something like this comes up , Everyone is on the "Bandwagon" But I have yet to see anyone put up a post to say "Well done Spot on" and I agree for a coin grade :angel:

echidna · August 10, 2014, 08:59:27 PM

Quote from: 'trout' pid='56653' dateline='1407668268'
QuoteThere is something going on with warranties.
Perhaps some legal issues...
They are very reluctant dispite the assurancies they offer.
I have done a warranty submission to NGC for a horribly overgarded coin and yep it came be the same grade.
It really was a shocker.
I also have another warranty currently at PCGS.
Over six months and no response.

I imagine neither TPG is happy to admit a mistake.
They DO make them occasionally , lets face it the graders are only human and mistakes will be made every now and then.
Overall though PCGS and NGC are pretty spot on 99.99% of the time and the odd mistake like this will not stop me getting my coins graded by them :ok:
When something like this comes up , Everyone is on the "Bandwagon" But I have yet to see anyone put up a post to say "Well done Spot on" and I agree for a coin grade :angel:

If collectors think that PCGS and NGC actually back up their grades via warranty then they may be dissapointed.
My experience is that there is NO recourse for overgrading.
Even no-brainers.
I can back up this statement with images and links.

That 43 shilling is not 65.
Its aUNC.
And I'd suggest that NGC would NOT back it up via a warranty.

Yes they make mistakes as we all do.
My experience is that their grading is not consistant enough.
Nowhere near 99.99%.

Nightparrot · August 10, 2014, 09:30:51 PM

It's now a cliche but you've got to buy the coin and not the slab....

I've just had these two great coins crossover from NGC.....

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106060.html

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106061.html

ausjack · August 10, 2014, 09:35:38 PM

Well done and both very nice Nightparrot but really like the rupee mate and would love to see more pic's as the toning looks pretty cool :good:

trout · August 10, 2014, 09:41:09 PM

Quote from: 'Nightparrot' pid='56659' dateline='1407672051'It's now a cliche but you've got to buy the coin and not the slab....

I've just had these two great coins crossover from NGC.....

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106060.html

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106061.html

Did they crossover at the same grade as NGC or did you have to wear a lesser grade?

nealeffendi · August 10, 2014, 10:04:54 PM

With my usual anal nature I followed up on NGC terms and conditions for their guarantees. They can require paperwork for purchase history (might explain shill bids) and they determine if the grade is accurate and how any redress is made (if they wanted to they could swap it for a butt ugly coin that is technically of the right grade and make you wait years until they find one) . They even have sole right to determine market value and don't even rely on the NGC price guide. Nothing inspires confidence when so much is at their "sole discretion"
So yes Dave is right and the guarantee is worth very little.

Nightparrot · August 10, 2014, 10:17:20 PM

Quote from: 'trout' pid='56661' dateline='1407672669'
Quote from: 'Nightparrot' pid='56659' dateline='1407672051'It's now a cliche but you've got to buy the coin and not the slab....

I've just had these two great coins crossover from NGC.....

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106060.html

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/30106061.html

Did they crossover at the same grade as NGC or did you have to wear a lesser grade?

Same grade for both....

Quote from: 'ausjack' pid='56660' dateline='1407672338'Well done and both very nice Nightparrot but really like the rupee mate and would love to see more pic's as the toning looks pretty cool :good:

The rupee has beautiful toning. Will take some better images later, it is still on it's way back from PCGS....

trout · August 10, 2014, 10:23:13 PM

QuoteThe rupee has beautiful toning. Will take some better images later, it is still on it's way back from PCGS....

That IS a stunner Mate, I have a couple of these But nothing like the quality of that Coin :drooling: