Grading $1 coins

[emu666]

Actually most of the collectors with huge disposable incomes are not (to my knowledge) members of this forum.

For example; if you look at the top PCGS sets in the predecimal series, there is not one forum member leading any of the sets.
(I manage third in the threepences, but most of those coins were bought more than 10 years ago when I did have a large disposable income).

I do know a few of those collectors with large disposable incomes and I would not consider them fools. Enthusiastic or very enthusiatic or even overly enthusiastic.

[ausjack]

I'm not sure but from my understanding there's a lot of yanks with our top of the pop coins

[trout]

Getting back to the OP's question :ok:
Regardless of whether it is a $1 coin or a 10 cent coin all the same grading points remain the same, Strike , Wear , State of preservation , Lustre and eye appeal Simple as that.

I'm not sure but from my understanding there's a lot of yanks with our top of the pop coins

The "Repatriator" is doing his level best to redress this situation and if I may add doing quite well at restoring the balance :yahoo:
GOOD on ya Steve :wavemulticolor:

[emu666]

I'm not sure but from my understanding there's a lot of yanks with our top of the pop coins

That turns out not to be the case.

I know of one who lives in the U.S. but he is Australian.

[robbiegal]

the bottom line is
both of those mules - once upon a time were purchased as one dollar coins
the astute collector - selects them out
then the art of it all sets in

a novice pre-decimal collector might throw a 1923 halfpenny back into the penny lot and put it up on ebay and get his $50 for the coins
the experienced collector will find that 1923 and flog it off for what ever he or she can get - the grade and how you sell it then comes into play

top dollar collectors - yes are often investors but it doesn't mean that they aren't collectors as well.

but yeah AJ, the PCGS business can get you down a bit because you think - I have to have big bucks to buy that - no, you develop your collecting skills and you obtain that high grade or scarce/rare coin through general collecting, learning and developing the eye for it - that is the back end way into maybe sometimes getting those expensive rarities for your own collection

[ausjack]

http://www.pcgs.com/Pop/ValueView.aspx?s=506638
doesn't matter as I'll never own one unless I can find it, this is what makes me think collecting is all bullshit if you get into the "I must have it" idea as I just can't play that game..maybe if I didn't get screwed and actually got some compo maybe but not in my current boat

[robbiegal]

nah mate
time
let time and patience be your friend
i'm still dreaming of finding that 1930 penny in a junk lot of pennies
dreaming ...... and dreamin ... ha ha

there are all sorts of collectors in numismatics
you just be the kind of collector that you want to be
most importantly - enjoy it!!

I love nothing more than fossicking around with a 10 or so kilo bag of pennies
keeps me out of mischief for months!

[Guest1595]

ausjack wrote : "like I said post some pic's and I'm sure the team will help if they can"


Okay I'll bite...here's a few shot of one that's in my stable.... first image to show the underlying luster and the other two for details...




sorry but I don't know how to make it blow up to a decent size so anyone who can, please feel free to re-post my shots ( Edit: Have managed to figure it out with Fulvio's help...cheers mate !)... Also apologies for the poor images...just took it with my iphone5 with incandescent lighting ...daylight would be alot sharper...

[Goldseeker]

Fulvio, no worries....no offence taken and thanks for the warm welcome...

Ausjack, my main reason for asking is so i can grade some of the mules i have myself and to create a resource here for others with regards to grading mules, in particular those unslabbed.... Also, the grading houses in the US, namely NGC and PCGS also have different grading to what we use here. Hence, being able to grade coins, in particular the $1 mules would help collectors of $1 mules alot.

Emu, thanks for your excellent reference material... One question that I have is, besides the cheek area on the queen's effigy, do any of the queen's hairline or tiara show wear early on ( i.e are they the other high points as others have suggested ?). Also, if it's not too much trouble, are u able to post a similar scan showing high points which wears first on the Reverse side ? Many thanks in advance....

In addition, if any forum member have access to photos of $1 mules of different grade and are able to post them in sequential order from choice Unc right down to Fine, I think that would make excellent grading reference materials for present and future $1 mule collectors alike....  

Cheers all...

If you go to the Forums Gallery section , top right of screen, and go to GOLDSEEKERS postings, you will see quite a few different grades of Mules that I have found and posted.

[drakesterling]

Guest, there's a website run by a collector with images of PCGS-graded mules in the various grades:
http://www.dollarmule.com.au/id2.html

(The link from AJ is also good, tohugh.)

If you'd like your mules graded, send me a message and we can talk.

Eric

[Fulvio]

sorry but I don't know how to make it blow up to a decent size

Use the gallery... its the easiest way. You can then post inline images with the img tag, which will display at full size.

Lovely coin, and the pics aren't bad either.

Now, as to grades and investments... oh my, where to start?

For the most part, we're coin collectors here, not money collectors. Yes, grading affects demand and competition and drives up prices... hence the $12k mule vs the $750. But does it really matter what that cheaper coin grades at? Clearly its not MS, and that's pretty much the end of the story, really. A single grade may make a huge difference at the top end of town, but the majority of these things are well circulated, and grade isn't the major factor.

And even if we're talking about an MS coin, what we grade it at is irrelevant anyway, since people are buying the slab and not the coin. Much has been written about slabbing, so I won't rehash it here. Suffice to say slabbing has little to do with coin collecting, and much to do with money collecting.

[emu666]

People collect what they want to collect.

at the price they want to pay.
Back to what the original poster was asking.

People often undergrade circulated decimal coins. I believe people confuse "wear" with "length of circulation". Cupronickel and aluminium bronze can circulate for a long time before showing much wear. Most of the 1966 dated coins still in circulation are still close to very fine in grade; it is uncommon to find any lower than fine in grade. If you consider the "1921 hoard" (which in spite of the name must have been put away early in 1922) had few silver coins earlier than 1916 in very fine and almost all the 1910-1912 dated coins were only VG.

The grade of a circulated coin is determined entirely by the amount of detail lost due to circulation. This does not really take into account how much lustre remains or the eye appeal of the coin.
Eye appeal does of course affect the value of the coin (this is even true for early silver coins; a VF 1915 florin that has some lustre remaining will sell for more than one with the same wear that has no lustre).

I have seen a number of 2000 $1/10c mules, correctly graded as AU58 as they are touched off on the obverse, that are more attractive than ones graded as MS62 that have only underlying lustre.

[markn]

Remember we've got a thread about why some collectors chase the good coins and why some don't bother so please keep that sort of conversation in there.  This thread is an excellent resource and I'd prefer it if the usual suspects kept their opinions on collecting preferences in the thread it belongs in.

[markn]

thought this was about coins, not investments or has collecting become purely investment only and if so there goes my hobby and I may as well go to SS or one of the other sites that are more for investors :cray: And so many here have said DON'T think you'll make money from our hobby unless you have the money and know how to spot the bargins or were they lying..it's all moot anyway so where are my drugs :winkextra:

and if we're talking investment we are no longer talking about a hobby or are we :scratch_one-s_head:

Replied in this thread.

[stevo1962]

[/quote]

The "Repatriator" is doing his level best to redress this situation and if I may add doing quite well at restoring the balance :yahoo:
GOOD on ya Steve :wavemulticolor:
[/quote]

  Thanks for the vote of confidence mate and its interesting to  note that if you are lucky you can pick
up a top of the pops coin very cheaply as many of the overseas sellers dont know what they have as I
have found

Yes thanks for your informative post Rob.... I'm sure this would help all those who collect the Yr 2000 $1 mules as well, in terms of verifying gradings on ebay etc...
Have always wondered how sellers have come up with the grading of the $1 mules... Whether it's mainly based on wear or bag marks..

And thanks all for the warm welcome..

Sent all of mine to PCGS as they are too hard to nail down a grade
 IMO