Overgraded by NGC ?

ausproofs · August 11, 2014, 07:32:47 AM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56650' dateline='1407666388'Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".

Its sitting at US $400 ++ already, Hmmmmm someone really likes that coin !

markn · August 11, 2014, 07:46:18 AM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56650' dateline='1407666388'Either that seller has some loyal bidders or there are shill bids going on. I have bid on his coins before and noticed I was being manipulated by shills.
I don't mind toned coins but that shilling has some hard knocks. Would it cross over as a 62 or 63 to PCGS?
NGC has this coin valued at 200USD at MS63 so how high for MS65? Could someone buy it and then send it back for re-evaluation and compensation for the drop in value? Sell it to a dummy bidder relative at full MS65 valuation and get them to be paid out hundreds in compo on their "loss".

The coin market on the US ebay is a different beast to the Australian one and the pool of buyers is huge compared with the Australian market. Sellers like jkcoins, gmarguli, greattoning, and aspencoins have great coins, great photos, and a huge following of potential buyers. Look at the feedback numbers they have and the quality they are selling. They DWARF any Australian eBay seller in terms of quality.

You see strong prices and of course, call it shill bidding, I call it having built an eBay selling method that works, and works well. I STRONGLY doubt there's any shill bidding going on there. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong via PM but sometimes it's too easy to look at the strong prices realised and automatically assume something dodgy is going on and throw accusations about. It doesn't reflect well on anyone to do so.

markn · August 11, 2014, 07:49:16 AM

Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='56673' dateline='1407708167'Its sitting at US $400 ++ already, Hmmmmm someone really likes that coin !

It wouldnt be the first time to bidiots have bid something up to stupid levels. It won't be the last. And I bet people on this forum (I'll raise my hand here) have been one of those bidiots before.

trout · August 11, 2014, 07:54:50 AM

QuoteIt wouldnt be the first time to bidiots have bid something up to stupid levels. It won't be the last. And I bet people on this forum (I'll raise my hand here) have been one of those bidiots before.

I won't be taking that bet :angel:

On occasion if I really want a particular coin I will keep bidding until I get it, Regardless of what the market price is

ausproofs · August 11, 2014, 08:14:10 AM

Quote from: 'markn' pid='56675' dateline='1407709156'
Quote from: 'ausproofs' pid='56673' dateline='1407708167'Its sitting at US $400 ++ already, Hmmmmm someone really likes that coin !

It wouldnt be the first time to bidiots have bid something up to stupid levels. It won't be the last. And I bet people on this forum (I'll raise my hand here) have been one of those bidiots before.

I am with you Mark ! I have done that before..... As a matter of fact I have done that with the same sellers items :idea:

I agree, these guys dont need shill bidders, people bid on their items.

nealeffendi · August 11, 2014, 08:21:46 AM

Hi Mark
When you have a number of bidders with % of bids with the one seller in the double digits then you have to go hmm? One bidder has bid on 746 items in 30 days and has a 34% bid history with this seller. Another has made 71% of his bids with this seller. On another of the sellers coins that I've bid on there is a bidder with 100% loyalty rate.
Shill bidding is one of the tricks I always watch for. This isn't the only seller that has a very unusual level of customer loyalty, I know defamation means we have to be careful in making accusations but I have a number of sellers on my hmm list and this seller is in third place. I'll PM you with my number 1 and his tactics.

autocoupler · August 11, 2014, 09:03:16 AM

Quote from: 'echidna' pid='56636' dateline='1407662251'http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231299006626?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Is it overgraded ?
Looks horrible to me.
What do you reckon...

A little slow on the uptake here :sleepy: but if I was doing my own adjectival grading with this coin it would be aUNC at best. As some of you have pointed out already, too many dings on the obverse, and the hair looks touched off to me. I reckon the Rams fleece is touched off as well. The toning is hiding all sorts of nasties I reckon.

markn · August 11, 2014, 09:14:18 AM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56678' dateline='1407711106'Hi Mark
When you have a number of bidders with % of bids with the one seller in the double digits then you have to go hmm? One bidder has bid on 746 items in 30 days and has a 34% bid history with this seller. Another has made 71% of his bids with this seller. On another of the sellers coins that I've bid on there is a bidder with 100% loyalty rate.
Shill bidding is one of the tricks I always watch for. This isn't the only seller that has a very unusual level of customer loyalty, I know defamation means we have to be careful in making accusations but I have a number of sellers on my hmm list and this seller is in third place. I'll PM you with my number 1 and his tactics.

The bidding on my account would easily have double digit percentages with a number of sellers. I have my favourites and I stick with them. I bet other people here are no different. Thanks for your caution though, I don't like these sorts of things thrown about here on this forum and I recommend others think before posting up similar accusations.

Fr45h3R · August 11, 2014, 09:17:40 PM

Quote from: 'markn' pid='56674' dateline='1407708978'The coin market on the US ebay is a different beast to the Australian one and the pool of buyers is huge compared with the Australian market. Sellers like jkcoins, gmarguli, greattoning, and aspencoins have great coins, great photos, and a huge following of potential buyers. Look at the feedback numbers they have and the quality they are selling. They DWARF any Australian eBay seller in terms of quality.

You see strong prices and of course, call it shill bidding, I call it having built an eBay selling method that works, and works well. I STRONGLY doubt there's any shill bidding going on there. Of course you are welcome to prove me wrong via PM but sometimes it's too easy to look at the strong prices realised and automatically assume something dodgy is going on and throw accusations about. It doesn't reflect well on anyone to do so.

I missed a coin sold by one of those sellers due to technical issues with my pc at the time the auction finished, and I saw the same coin relisted a month or so later. It was very cheap at the final price as well the first time around, and the 2nd time around the price was twice the price of the first auction.