Unusual numismatic find....

[Unicorn]

Somebody posted (this forum or CCF) about some idiots who ended up with a whole bunch (a drum?) of $2 blanks and left a trail from Queenbeyan to Golburn in coin machines, so were they charged with possession of stolen goods (metal blanks) and defrauding the vending machines by using non coins or were they charged with stealing money?

Can't remember what the charges were, probably all of the above plus some.

[nealeffendi]

Somebody posted (this forum or CCF) about some idiots who ended up with a whole bunch (a drum?) of $2 blanks and left a trail from Queenbeyan to Golburn in coin machines, so were they charged with possession of stolen goods (metal blanks) and defrauding the vending machines by using non coins or were they charged with stealing money?

Can't remember what the charges were, probably all of the above plus some.

Hi Unicorn. It isn't possible to be guilty of both stealing money and using non money as money. It is one or the other.
The thieves were certainly guilty of stupidity, blanks sell on fleabay for more than coins as most variety/error collectors covet them.

[Mister T]

When do the blanks become legal tender?
Is it when the mint signs for delivery, when they are struck or when they are released by the mint?

I would have thought when it gets struck. Looking at the Currency Act it says the Treasurer determines the design(s) among other things. I assume this is in the currency determinations and I doubt there's a currency determination that says no design is a valid design.

[robbiegal]

hum
I think that once QEII is on the blank then it's HRM legal tender

just as a non printed note would not be legal tender until it is printed

but how a person gets to have them in their possession is probably the illegal part of it

[Nevol]

Just a tad more than 32kg. :mocking:  Maybe 732kg.

Poorly expressed... what he meant to say is the empty drum weighs 33Kg. Which is more than your average run-of-the-mill drum.

Oh, OK Ta and sorry. :angel:

[Fulvio]

When do the blanks become legal tender?
Is it when the mint signs for delivery, when they are struck or when they are released by the mint?

When they leave the mint and become part of the nation's money supply. Until then they're just bits of metal, whether they're blanks or fully struck coins. So all those coins lying around on the floor under the presses, and all the mis-strikes they catch, aren't actually money.

[nealeffendi]

When do the blanks become legal tender?
Is it when the mint signs for delivery, when they are struck or when they are released by the mint?

When they leave the mint and become part of the nation's money supply. Until then they're just bits of metal, whether they're blanks or fully struck coins. So all those coins lying around on the floor under the presses, and all the mis-strikes they catch, aren't actually money.

Thanks fulvio.
Does that mean that the blanks that do come out of the mint (by stupidity, not by illegality) are legal tender?

[Fulvio]

Does that mean that the blanks that do come out of the mint (by stupidity, not by illegality) are legal tender?

Very good question.

On the basis that they've been accounted for and included in the figures, I would say yes. Of course you'd never convince anyone of that. Heck, I very nearly couldn't get a bank teller to accept a paper $50 recently!

[Steveqld]

I'd take the contrary view.  s 16 says it is legal tender " if it is made in coins that are made and issued under this Act".  Whilst a blank may have been wrongly "issued" or released by the mint it hasn't been made into a coin at that time because it doesn't fit the specifications.  It's still a blank.

[Fulvio]

I'd take the contrary view.  s 16 says it is legal tender " if it is made in coins that are made and issued under this Act".  Whilst a blank may have been wrongly "issued" or released by the mint it hasn't been made into a coin at that time because it doesn't fit the specifications.  It's still a blank.

Yes, its still a blank. But compare that to a counterfeit coin that complies in every way other than being issued by the mint.

Coins and Banknotes are quite distinct from money, although they represent it. Money is an abstract concept, and the physical (or virtual, for that matter) forms are just mechanisms to make it easy to handle.

When you make a counterfeit, you devalue money, because the apparent supply has increased without being officially issued and recorded. Taken to extremes, this can destroy an economy and bring down nations, which is why its treated so harshly.

Conversely, by issuing a non-coin or banknote, the reverse happens. Imagine a pallet of notes which are all blank and therefore unusable, if that helps.

Yes, on the small scale, it doesn't matter. For example, I got shorted $2.40 in the sacks of 2001 CoF state coins. That means there is $2.40 missing from my pocket, and from the nation's accounts, which should be there. Nobody cares of course, but if the situation were reversed and I had $2.40 of fake coins, you can bet they'd care then, right?

It may be an esoteric argument, but extend it from blanks to improperly struck coins and it takes on a little more meaning. What if you have a coin which barely shows an impression, or is in some other way "wrong"? Yes, I know it has more value as a collectible, but the point is what effect does it have on our money, as distinct from what is the physical object worth?