1955 proof and specimen coins

serenitystan · August 01, 2017, 12:39:25 PM

Protection against grading and authentication. Has anyone on this site resubmitted a slab they believed was undergraded. Received the slab back with a higher grade and refunded grading fee,postage and insurance? I bet not....

drakesterling · August 01, 2017, 12:55:13 PM

Yes, PCGS paid me out on a coin that was graded but had graffiti pin scratches on it. The amount they reimburse is at their discretion, but we were very happy with their payout. They did take a long time to get back to me, though, which would be my only complaint.

nealeffendi · August 01, 2017, 08:27:18 PM

Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='110499' dateline='1501552550'
Quote from: 'serenitystan' pid='110498' dateline='1501552179'Thanks Drakesterling. Have just finished reading the PCGS Guarantee of grade and Authenticity. They have just about covered there arse for all there mistakes. There is so much dishonesty and bullshit in people today.

It is a legal document, so there are a lot of provisions and exceptions, and yes, many of them protect PCGS from human error. The grading guarantee specifically protects collectors against PCGS making mistakes with grading and authentication only. It is not meant to be used to cover typos, spelling errors, description errors on the certificates, or changes in the market conditions. In fact, I suspect a lot of the "bullshit" in these long-winded terms and conditions are to protect companies against frivolous claims, as well. Bullshit goes both ways.

Description errors are a real concern. The numerical grading system of slabbing was set up to facilitate the selling of coins sight unseen. Now if you buy a coin that way and the description is wrong who pays the difference? I've noted many so called No Dot 1920 pennies in both PCGS and NGC slabs that are CBL and priced at a stiff level that is multiples of their fair value. People who buy them will find out years from now that they have a common Dot Below.
Also the level of compo may be paltry even if they admit to a mistake; for example they value a MS64 '37 crown at USD250 (about $300) and presumably that would be the max compensation if they realized it was a fake, if it was just a matter of getting the grading really wrong the compo would be even less. In the real world (the coin market) a drop of even a single point of overgrading can drop a coins value by 90% (or more, this year I've picked up a number of '64 threepences in MS67 for around $30 but have been outbid at $450 for MS68).
Still, the raw coin market is the Wild West compared to PCGS.

drakesterling · August 02, 2017, 12:48:04 AM

The system is not perfect, as you say nealeffendi, but it's about finding the best system rather than a perfect one, and the coin market was definitely the Wild West before PCGS came along! So anything is a step up from that.

serenitystan · August 02, 2017, 06:28:12 AM

Yes. PCGS + NGC have leveled the playing field. I have a catalogue from a auction house that states...NOTE: We do not accept responsibility for items that do not come up to Buyer expectations on PCGS grading. NO refunds will be issued as a result of this...TOMBSTONE AUCTIONS..

trout · August 02, 2017, 09:14:54 AM

Quote from: 'drakesterling' pid='110507' dateline='1501600684'The system is not perfect, as you say nealeffendi, but it's about finding the best system rather than a perfect one, and the coin market was definitely the Wild West before PCGS came along! So anything is a step up from that.

:agreed:
I doubt that there will Ever be a "Perfect" system with Any collectable because there will always be the unscrupulous element in the market But PCGS and NGC have made a huge difference to the integrity of the coin market.
There are still some dealers and sellers that still continue to deal in cleaned and overgraded coins But with the PCGS and NGC graded coins at least collectors now have a far greater chance of getting Exactly what they pay for.

We have to remember as well that regardless of how important Australian coins are to us they only form a Tiny percentage of the TPG's business and until they have been educated about our various coin varieties they will continue to make mistakes with attribution.

NO PCGS and NGC are Not "Perfect" But they are a quantum leap from the shady dealers from the not so distant past :ok:

wwwww · August 02, 2017, 04:30:09 PM

Quote from: 'serenitystan' pid='110498' dateline='1501552179'Thanks Drakesterling. Have just finished reading the PCGS Guarantee of grade and Authenticity. They have just about covered there arse for all there mistakes. There is so much dishonesty and bullshit in people today.

PCGS having full discretion on the compensation amount is sufficient to "cover their arse" in every case but as Eric said in practice they do pay out well - it's in their interests to buy in coins they make mistakes on. Everyone I've talked to who has submitted a guarantee submission has said the same thing, the payout was fair but it took way too long.

serenitystan · August 02, 2017, 06:06:46 PM

Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='110522' dateline='1501657209'
Quote from: 'serenitystan' pid='110498' dateline='1501552179'Thanks Drakesterling. Have just finished reading the PCGS Guarantee of grade and Authenticity. They have just about covered there arse for all there mistakes. There is so much dishonesty and bullshit in people today.

PCGS having full discretion on the compensation amount is sufficient to "cover their arse" in every case but as Eric said in practice they do pay out well - it's in their interests to buy in coins they make mistakes on. Everyone I've talked to who has submitted a guarantee submission has said the same thing, the payout was fair but it took way too long.

That's fine. Nothing you can do from here in Australia. Its not like you can take them to a small claims court. Still a 100% payout would be better than a well or fair payment.:yahoo:

drakesterling · August 03, 2017, 02:02:08 AM

Tombstone Auctions. I know exactly whom you're referring to.

ausproofs · August 16, 2017, 06:53:52 PM

Here is my 1956 3D graded as a proof. It looks more like a specimen to me.

wwwww · August 25, 2017, 11:50:28 AM

PCGS grades them all as proofs at the moment.

trout · August 25, 2017, 12:43:05 PM

Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='110999' dateline='1503627628'PCGS grades them all as proofs at the moment.

Why an I Not surprised about that :angel:

ausproofs · August 25, 2017, 08:32:24 PM

Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='110999' dateline='1503627628'PCGS grades them all as proofs at the moment.

Thanks Walter, If and when PCGS start grading them as SP and PR, I will get these coins regarded.

trout · August 25, 2017, 11:08:58 PM

QuoteThanks Walter, If and when PCGS start grading them as SP and PR, I will get these coins regarded.

Working out which coins are Specimen and which are Proofs from this Era is Not an easy task and the financial risks for PCGS are quite large IF they get the attribution wrong.
Also there is the problem of All the coins already graded and attributed as Proofs that are in fact Specimens that would need to be re graded correctly.
There is also the problem with collectors that have had their 1956 Specimen coins that are in the PR slabs that would be very reluctant to have re graded and devalued by doing so.

The difference between the Modern Wedding Set Specimens and the Circulation strikes from the same years are Very Very Easy to distinguish between and at the moment there isn't that much of a difference in the values as there is with the 1955 and 1956 coins and PCGS "Refuses" to attribute these correctly at this time, So I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for PCGS to do a turn around with these pre decimal Specimens.