1946 penny slabbs

[trout]

Just to be clear Trout, the grades aren't "ANDA" grades, they're descriptive grades. ANDA did of course produce a pamphlet that was intended to help collectors to learn how to identify coins in the various descriptive grades, but these same descriptions are used by collectors all over the world, 99.9999% if whom have never heard of ANDA. Descriptive grading isn't unique to ANDA in any way.

Ejamakation is definitely the way forward, regardless of the grading system or standard being used.

No worries I will still refer to the Aussie grading sytem as anda, I'm not THAT educated:crazy_pilot:

[Bigfellani5]

The only reason the Sheldon scale is in Australia is because of slabbing. You get rid of slabbing and you get rid of the sheldon scale in Australia.

By adding the Sheldon scale into the mix you are doing nothing but complicating what should be simple.

My whole point is ebay is allowing people to be ripped off by allowing deceptive practices.....ie grading system is that not the standard in Australia, incorrect gradings by novices or the the rip off merchant and by suggesting a coins value based on...lets face it...works of fiction catalogues. By allowing this it devalues the industry and, lets spell it out here, peoples collections. The listing provided in this thread prove that else this thread would not have been started. The sad thing is that there are ebay listings that are a lot worse than these mentioned.

It is not a case of understanding a particular grading system, it is improving the listing standard on ebay so people are not ripped off.

[trout]

The only reason the Sheldon scale is in Australia is because of slabbing. You get rid of slabbing and you get rid of the sheldon scale in Australia.

By adding the Sheldon scale into the mix you are doing nothing but complicating what should be simple.

My whole point is ebay is allowing people to be ripped off by allowing deceptive practices.....ie grading system is that not the standard in Australia, incorrect gradings by novices or the the rip off merchant and by suggesting a coins value based on...lets face it...works of fiction catalogues. By allowing this it devalues the industry and, lets spell it out here, peoples collections. The listing provided in this thread prove that else this thread would not have been started. The sad thing is that there are ebay listings that are a lot worse than these mentioned.

It is not a case of understanding a particular grading system, it is improving the listing standard on ebay so people are not ripped off.

i am certainly not a fan of slabbed coins but unfortunatly I feel that they are here to stay

There is a way that these dodgy sellers can be picked out and that is by looking at their feedback.
This is not infalable but it is better than nothing.

[trout]

1) Waist of money slabbing
2) Seller is a shark
3) Buyer is an idiot

IMHO ebay needs a huge overhaul on selling anything that is not a packaged by the mint item....this includes slabbed coins. On aussie ebay you should only be allowed to use an Aussie grading standard on aussie coins and banknotes and should not be allowed to show at all the grading supplied by a non Australian entity that is not proficient in grading using an Aussie grading standard. This way no buyer can be deceived like this listing shows. No mention of a catalogue value should be allowed...again this will assist in not pushing an auction price up to a ficticious value. Lastly I would have it so that no gradings at all can be mentioned unless you are a professional dealer with a brick and mortar shop. There are too many hobbiest/backyarders that just do not know how to grade (or dont have the experience to grade) or dont give a damn they are ripping someone off or have no care about the industry. I hear too often of real gradings and ebay gradings. This can not be good.

The amount of customers I have coming into my shop asking opinions on overpaid coin and banknotes because of incorrectly graded items on ebay is getting higher and higher. I would argue there is no confidence in the market in general with predecimal coins and banknotes. From a dealer point of view there is no point listing decent material on ebay because of this ever increasing problem of buyers getting ripped off causing no confidence in the market. This means true pricing is just not there any more.

I know what I am saying will annoy a few of you but the reality is that a good 70 to 80% of ebay sellers do not know how to grade and even a greater percentage of buyers do not know how to grade. A huge percentage of buyers do not know the difference between different grading standards used by different counties. So even though it will annoy a lot of the hobbiests that sell on ebay some very strict rules are needed to prevent buyers getting ripped off like what has happened above.

Does this listing meet your requirements ?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181019751280?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1586.l2649

:music:

[enworb]

Quite possibly the most :dodgy: looking listing ive ever seen :tease:

[trout]

Quite possibly the most :dodgy: looking listing ive ever seen :tease:

:shock:

[Bigfellani5]

If this listing is from a professional brick and mortar dealer then it should be graded. No mention of price should be the practice. If it is from a non bricks and mortar dealer... Which in this case, without knowing the seller, probably is.... Then non grading should be the practice so therefore acceptable. It contain facts ( eg no pin holes) and contains no opinions (such as a grade) by a "lay person" that may or may not know what they are talking about.

You must keep in mind a professional dealer must be a registered business with an Abn and registered with the state department of fair trading. This means consumer protection is there if the grading is not as it should be. A buyer buying from a hobbiest or someone selling a "collection" has no consumer protection at all. If these sellers over grade the only recourse is ebays buyer protection which is not worth a pinch of shit anyway. By not allowing these sellers to place a grade on the item I can then avoid them if I choose knowing there is no consumer protection if I buy or can place the grade I believe the item is and bid accordingly.

eBay should across all eBay auction (not just coins and banknotes) have 2 catagories of sellers. The first being professional or business sellers where the buyer knows up front consumer protection laws apply. The second being everyone else where no consumer protection exists. I would then be able to easily select with a little confidence the level of protection I can live with.

As a side to this my partner bought a pair of jeans of eBay for my son that were described as new with tags. The jeans fell apart after the first wash. She contacted the sell who said stick the jeans up your jumper... No refund. eBay/paypals buyer protection sided with the seller. The seller was a mum and dad seller holding an online "garage sale". No consumer protection from fair trading. If they were a business I would have had the law on my side. Unfortunately from the listing I could not tell if it was a business or personal seller. If I had the knowledge then I have a choice. Bring this back to coins if eBay made this information available it might bring some credibility to the eBay coin market making sale prices stronger and therefore making the industry stronger.

[trout]

If this listing is from a professional brick and mortar dealer then it should be graded. No mention of price should be the practice. If it is from a non bricks and mortar dealer... Which in this case, without knowing the seller, probably is.... Then non grading should be the practice so therefore acceptable.

You must keep in mind a professional dealer must be a registered business with an Abn and registered with the state department of fair trading. This means consumer protection is there if the grading is not as it should be. A buyer buying from a hobbiest or someone selling a "collection" has no consumer protection at all. If these sellers over grade the only recuse is beats burr protection which is not worth a pinch of shit anyway. By not allowing these sellers to place a grade on the item I can then avoid them if I choose knowing there is no consumer protection if I buy or can place the grade I believe the item is and bid accordingly.

eBay should across all eBay auction (not just coins and banknotes) have 2 catagories of sellers. The first being professional or business sellers where the buyer knows up front consumer protection laws apply. The second being everyone else where no consumer protection exists. I would then be able to easily select with a little confidence the level of protection I can live with.

As a side to this my partner bought a pair of jeans of eBay for my son that were described as new with tags. The jeans fell apart after the first wash. She contacted the sell who said stick the jeans up your jumper... No refund. eBay/paypals buyer protection sided with the seller. The seller was a mum and dad seller holding an online "garage sale". No consumer protection from fair trading. If they were a business I would have had the law on my side. Unfortunately from the listing I could not tell if it was a business or personal seller. If I had the knowledge then I have a choice. Bring this back to coins if eBay made this information available it might bring some credibility to the eBay coin market making sale prices stronger and therefore making the industry stronger.

This is actually one of my listings.

There is "buyer protection" via pay pal and I will always give a full refund if I get a dissatisfied buyer (as long as I get my stuff back).
I have never had to give a refund yet.

Just because an eBay seller has a brick and mortar establishment doesn’t equate that the seller has a good reputation on eBay, this has to be earned and honoured by the seller.
NO free rides for eBay for sellers.
God forbid that we “amateurs” dare to sell our excess coins on eBay without the direct approval of the dealer community.

Without us “amateurs” there would be NO market and wanting to corner/police the eBay market by “a dealer’s only policy” won’t work, eBay is simply an auction avenue that EVERYONE can use.
Sure there is a lot of crap on there (like any other auction held anywhere in the world) and there are always lots that will be hyped up just to sell them.

The secret is sorting through the crap and find the diamonds , most collectors now DO use eBay to buy and sell and we all have been stung at one time or another.

If an eBay seller consistently puts a false grade on a coin banknote the they will gain a bad reputation (same as B&M operations) and will be ignored by the buyers.

So I put it to you, If I put a grade on a coin I am putting MY reputation on the line just the same as a B&M establishment and should have the RIGHT to grade my own coins/notes and build or destroy my reputation.

This may annoy some dealers but some of us “Amateurs” just might actually know what we are talking about
BTW this is getting way :off_topic:

[Bigfellani5]

I am not against non dealers selling at all. I have just seen too many of my customers ripped off by non dealers and Paypal/eBay have done nothing. The feedback system is flawed as a lot of unwary buyers do not know they are ripped off until years later when they go to sell. The feedback system is useless then.

My whole point is there are too many deceptive listings on eBay. No matter what forum you are on dealing with any type of goods you find threads about deceptive listings and people that have been ripped off. The reason this thread started in the first place was to highlight yet another example of this.

My argument is eBay needs to do something about it and I have suggested a few areas they can looking within the industry I deal in. If anyone has suggestion I am happy to hear them. It is not about stopping anyone selling but creating a place where people can buy with confidence rather than the lucky dip that occurs now.

[enworb]

There are plenty of dealers out there with a shop who are full of crap. I would sooner buy from someone on ebay with zero feedback than a couple dealers in Australia who have a shop. From what i have witnessed the coin industry is fairly merciless like any other business and the uneducated will get burned. There is of course some dealers (most) that are honest and willing to help.

If youre not able to grade properly from the photos provided then dont bid. You dont walk into a second hand car dealership and buy a car described as immaculate when the door is smashed in and a mirror is missing. You do research first, learn what to look for. If youre happy to take the dealers word for it you will get burned.

In my opinion consumers have the responsibility to educate themselves and if theyre not willing to do so then they will get screwed.

[trout]

I am not against non dealers selling at all. I have just seen too many of my customers ripped off by non dealers and Paypal/eBay have done nothing. The feedback system is flawed as a lot of unwary buyers do not know they are ripped off until years later when they go to sell. The feedback system is useless then.

My whole point is there are too many deceptive listings on eBay. No matter what forum you are on dealing with any type of goods you find threads about deceptive listings and people that have been ripped off. The reason this thread started in the first place was to highlight yet another example of this.

My argument is eBay needs to do something about it and I have suggested a few areas they can looking within the industry I deal in. If anyone has suggestion I am happy to hear them. It is not about stopping anyone selling but creating a place where people can buy with confidence rather than the lucky dip that occurs now.

This is why the slabbed coins are coming into play, it removes some of the element of doubt, then again the dodgy brothers can and do dupe people even with these.

I agree that ebay needs cleaning up and I would support any effort to do so.

There will always be dodgy/dishonest eBay sellers, Even if eBay clamped down, these ratbags would find a way of getting through the loop holes.
I think the secret is to educate collectors on the pitfalls and create a data base of these dishonest sellers.
The more educated the collectors get the less of a market for these undesirables there is and they will eventually die out.
Nevol has quite a list of dodgy sellers and I imagine she would be aware of quite a number of these rats.
Now if we all did the same and sent these lists into eBay the we may be able to fumigate a few of them out of there.
But I imagine just like any other vermin, another will take its place.

It would be great to be able to sell to buyers that have confidence in the eBay market place.
But until the buyers are sufficiently educated or the "Bad Apples" have been removed , This unfortunately will never happen.
The slabbed coins (Love them or Hate them) are taking some of the element of doubt in buying for the bay But there are still some dastardly sellers tricking people with these.

I did a test sale not long ago using 2 coins one slabbed and one raw (The raw coin was actually a better coin) and the slabbed coin way out performed the raw coin as far as getting a better price.

But in reality the cost involved in getting a coin graded really didn’t pan out.
I got an extra $31 for the slab and it would have cost about $50 to get it slabbed, so at the end of the day the raw coin was a better sale.

Are we all going to get our coins slabbed just to be able to sell them on eBay?
Unless it is a high value coin this is totally unfeasible.
I don’t know the answer to getting market confidence back, although I would surly love to know.