Large Shilling

[emu666]

If a wrong collar die was used, it raises the question, is it a broadstrike.

No. It would be a mule.

Yes sure would.

Shilling, 1961 muled with halfpenny collar. Old obverse scratch else uncirculated and exceptionally rare with only two examples of this type of error recorded....

Robbie, we're rich!!!!!


Just slightly smaller than a halfpenny:

[Fr45h3R]

Any chance of an image of the edge, in general this will tell you if a collar has been used.

If I recall with emu666's coin, when we had a look at it, there didn't appear to be milling at all. Also, with the nice symmetry of the coin, Tony Byrne believed it was struck in a collar, as normally an out of collar strike doesn't end up perfectly round,
He deduced that due to lack of milling, and around about the size, the coin was possibly struck in a halfpenny collar.

[robbiegal]

you halfpenny there Fr45h3R
is rather impressive .............

[Fulvio]

is rather impressive .............

Certainly is. Now, who's going to be first to list on ebay?

Extremely Rare 1961 Shilling/Halfpenny MULE

Start the bidding at say ten grand maybe? With enough big red letters in the description, it'd be sure to sell.

[robbiegal]

well
i'd agree that these coins are very likely rare
we need further confirmation of the mule theory

I thought a mule had two different sides from two different countries?

other than that $1 'mule' from oz

[Fulvio]

I thought a mule had two different sides from two different countries?

Mismatched dies. Usually Obverse and Reverse, but since there are three dies, the Collar counts too.

[nealeffendi]

I thought a mule had two different sides from two different countries?

Mismatched dies. Usually Obverse and Reverse, but since there are three dies, the Collar counts too.

Technically speaking, does the collar count as a die or a tool?
And if it counts as a die then are uniface '37s really uniface?

[Cobwebs]

If a collar was in place, we don't know which one was used. So not "Extremely Rare 1961 Shilling/Halfpenny MULE".
More like a 1/- with a wrong collar.

I would say a collar is a die as it can have different designs, plain, lettered, reeded etc.
The uniface is a uniface as there are only 2 faces and 1 edge to a coin.

[robbiegal]

I have my coin labelled as an out of collar error

[nealeffendi]

If a collar was in place, we don't know which one was used. So not "Extremely Rare 1961 Shilling/Halfpenny MULE".
More like a 1/- with a wrong collar.

I would say a collar is a die as it can have different designs, plain, lettered, reeded etc.
The uniface is a uniface as there are only 2 faces and 1 edge to a coin.

But if it has 2 faces then how can it be uniface?
And yes there can be some very fancy milling on coins edges (even words), but does that make it formally or officially a die?

[markn]

But if it has 2 faces then how can it be uniface?
And yes there can be some very fancy milling on coins edges (even words), but does that make it formally or officially a die?

Generally edge lettering, whether incuse or in relief is not applied during the striking process.  It's a pre-minting or post minting operation.

[Fulvio]

does that make it formally or officially a die?

According to the Oxford dictionary:

2 (plural dies) a device for cutting or moulding metal into a particular shape.
an engraved device for stamping a design on coins or medals.


So yes, its a die, as is anything else used to form metal (or any other material, really).

So I'd stick with a coin struck with a wrong collar as being a mule. As distinct from being struck out of collar, which these aren't. Far too neat for that, as has been pointed out.

[markn]

So I'd stick with a coin struck with a wrong collar as being a mule. As distinct from being struck out of collar, which these aren't. Far too neat for that, as has been pointed out.

I agree.  Of course if the coin never touches the collar you'd never be able to tell the difference between an "out of collar" and a "mule due to incorrect collar die".

[Fulvio]

if the coin never touches the collar you'd never be able to tell the difference between an "out of collar" and a "mule due to incorrect collar die".

:agreed: