Questions and Answers

[adud2304]

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[stevo1962]

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:welcome:

Do you have a question?

[keldaw]

steve the q is undefined , that comes up quite a bit , but i dont understand what it is ..   ,, kel ,,

[Robster]

Welcome to the forum.!:dontknow: Try reposting the Question.!

[Fordprefect]

steve the q is undefined , that comes up quite a bit , but i dont understand what it is ..   ,, kel ,,

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It's a Browser issue of compatibility, FireFox from Release 16
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Explorer and Chrome browsers do not suffer this fate, yet.:angel:

[adud2304]

Sorry about the first posting - my question is: "How do you determine the degree of upset in an upset coin? Is it in a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction?"
The coin under discussion has the reverse vertical initially but when when flipped fhe king's head is facing down (towards 6 o'clock). Is the degree of upset 90 or 270?

[markn]

That's a 180 degree upset.  Sorry I do not actually know the answer to the other part of your question.

[adud2304]

Sorry Markn - I find it difficult to put a picture into words but it is either 90 or 270 as the top of the king's hair/head is vertical initially (12 o'clock) and at 9 o'clock on being flipped. The other question remains - Do you measure degree of  unusual (word now coming) upset(edness?) in terms of clockwise or counter-clockwise?

[accumulator]

Don't know if it's right or not but i've always gone with clockwise,which in the case of your coin if it's rotated to 9 o'clock then it would be 270 degrees.

[enworb]

Pretty simple each hour of the clock is 30 degrees. I personally dont like calling a rotation more than 180 degrees. I think it is either 180 exactly or out by a certain amount either clockwise or anticlockwise. For example a coin at 3 oclock i would call 90 degrees clockwise. A coin at 9 oclock i would call 90 degrees anticlockwise. Many people will disagree and others will agree. It comes down to a bit of personal preference. I think it is silly to say a coin that is out by 10 degrees anticlockwise is out by 350 degrees.

[adud2304]

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[Robster]

Especially if the die had rotated 33 1/3 times, then it would probably be a L.P. rotation.!  (or a turntable in the old money.!).:dodgy:

[adud2304]

Why do two of my posts come up with undefined yet two are OK? What am I doing wrong?

[markn]

Well I believe the 2001 COF upsets are measured by obverse upset, because it was obverse die that was moving.  So if you take an upset 2001 dollar and hold it with the reverse upright and then spin the coin in your fingers and the queen was rotated 90 degress clockwise (ie the top of her head was pointing right) then this would be a 90 degree or 3 o'clock upset.  If you spun the coin and the queen was rotated 270 degrees clockwise (ie the top of her head was pointing left) then the upset would be 270 degrees or a 9 o'clock upset.

That being said, when I search around the internet most sites seem to measure the degree of upset of the reverse in a clock wise direction.  So, hold the coin with the obverse oriented correctly and spin the coin in your finger and see how the reverse is rotated.

Like so many things in coin collecting there's no hard and fast standard.  Pick a method you like and stick to it but be ready to understand how others do it. enworb's idea above is fairly sensible but you need to supply additional information, whether the upset is 90 degrees clockwise or anti-clockwise.

[Goldseeker]

A very interesting discussion going on in this thread.

I can say with absolutely certainty, in regards to the 2001 Cent Of Federation $1 coin upset is this.:   That the Obverse die broke away from its support and rotated a little each time it struck a coin so that the Obverse is out of alignment with the Reverse.   This can be demonstrated by the examination of the reeding on the edge of the coin.   On examination, have a look at the alignment of the reeding in regards to the "TI" in the word "FederaTIon".   The alignment does not move regardless of the amount of upset the Obverse is.   I have had it confirmed also by RAM staff when I showed them my collection of upsets when the RAM threw the production floor open many years ago.   To date I have found in excess 480 upsets and I found another today, upset at 247 degrees or a little after 41 minutes past the hour.

I use the clock at describing an upset.   3 o'clock upset is at 90 degrees.   5 o'clock upset is at 150 degrees.   8 o o'clock upset is at 240 degrees.   I think people can picture an upset at 9 0'clock far easier that saying it is upset at 270 degrees.   To work backwards means nothing to me nor would I excpect it to be too clear for most other people.

In regards to pennies or coins that do not have a reeded edge, I think it is only guess work as to which die broke and caused the upset.   Posibly the dies were not set up correctly in the first place.

For adud2304:-   When checking a coin for upset do the following:

1:   Hold the coin between your first finger  and thumb or top and bottom of the coin with the Reverse facing you as it should be.

2:   Rotate the coin on its VERTICAL AXIS, do not roll the coin.

If the coin is an upset, then the OBVERSE will be out of alignment when viewed.   (Edited as a result of the comment beloew).   (Thanks teacher.....)

Please be advised that according to the RAM production staff, a coin is not upset if it is not out of allignment by by more than 15 degrees either side of the 12 o'clock position.  That is 2.5 minutes to or 2.5 minutes past the hour.