Australian 1930 Penny Myth or real

[r9453]

I think this coin might have been on the forum previously:

[wwwww]

Well I do hop[e that they do exist.

I have two of the 1930 pennies both bought from Balinda Downie of Coinworks.

One has been verified as a genuine 1930 penny whilst the other satisfies all the requirements wanted of an authentic 1930 penny but not certified as the Mint at the time, stopped certifying coins due to public liability concerns.

Congratulations on the acquisition of your rare pennies, the only reason I ever brought up the contentious post was from my visit to a coin stall in Penrith some time back I have been collecting coins since the 60,s and I bought a $15 1930 penny from the guy just to have a look at it with my new USB zoom scope which is what I did, I sampled it with a lot of other pennies that had 3,s and o,s on them and I could not pick a fault with the date the colour the weight or the sheer feel of it, this fact scared me into thinking maybe a lot of my others may be fake but I got over that scare after a while, I eventually melted the fake and a 1931 penny and the 31 puddled up as copper with streaks and the fake puddled up as just copper so that result proved nothing, then I looked into the history of the 30 and I haven't been able to prove they exist, the closest story was from a guy who was having his old fed house done up and claims when they were pulling up old lino from his kitchen the worker picked up a coin and tossed it to him and it turned out to be a 1930, that was in Tasmania, anyway the upshot is if the mint cannot prove production
and remember that the mint was responsible for producing FORTY MILLION COINS approx in pennys. in the previous ten years, any one business that produced 2.5 million pennys the previous year plus all the other denominations, would definitely have some record of it, this now tells me that the proofs that were made and recorded are the ones that are surfacing as circulated, the only issue I have problems with is that there are experts out there professing to know what the coin is supposed to look like when there only a few proofs known and they are made differently than the circ coin, so how do they get to be a expert, I agree that the design could be worked out from logic and history but that can be done by any Joe Blow,
hopefully this marks the conclusion of  the  post because it is only hurting
myself and others who posess a 1930
My Kindest regards Alan

The circulation pennies were struck from the same reverse die as the proof so the die markings can easily be verified.

[nealeffendi]

Walter, are there not 2 known reverse dies? ACR back in about 1965 mentioned the second die with the slight doubling of the date.

[wwwww]

Walter, are there not 2 known reverse dies? ACR back in about 1965 mentioned the second die with the slight doubling of the date.

It's not doubling, it's a 2 under the 3. Every authentic 1930 penny including the proofs have it (except where damage or wear near the date makes it impossible to test).

[autocoupler]

It's not doubling, it's a 2 under the 3. Every authentic 1930 penny including the proofs have it (except where damage or wear near the date makes it impossible to test).

Does this then give further credence to the comment below on the 1929 pennies, which was gleaned from Strand Coins.

"Only one Indian obverse die was used in this year and if we refer to the averages being achieved from general production at the time, it can be deduced that the mintage of this coin was less than 50,000. This was the first use of the Indian obverse die that was sent directly to Melbourne from London in 1922 and which was later used on the 'Indian die' 1930 pennies. A study of the reverse of the 1929 pennies also reveals its close resemblance to the die used to produce the 1930 pennies. It would appear that the last two digits were removed from a 1929 master which was then re-dated to produce the 1930 pennies."

[Basil]

There were dozens,if not hundreds, of articles on the 1930 Penny in the early 1960's Sydney Press as we headed to Decimal conversion,i don't understand why the majority do not show up in searches.The Sydney afternoon papers,Sun & Mirror, were the driving force IIRC but having difficulty accessing any records.
I tried the SMH archives but the majority are classified ads for the 1930 from that period,sale price etc.Trove was similar with generalised articles on sales and Auction price realised.
When i get some more time i'll try again but the SMH Archives are $15 a day if you wish to read more than the headline.

Edit..added Archives.

[Hercules]

When i get some more time i'll try again but the SMH is $15 a day if you wish to read more than the headline.

I know a way to get most of the online newspapers for free, but I won't be sharing details on this forum in case someone works there.

[fred lever]

Hi Guys, read my article in the latest CAB magazine about the 1930 penny, fable and fact. I think it just about says it all.
Cheers, Fred Lever.

[echidna]

Hi Guys, read my article in the latest CAB magazine about the 1930 penny, fable and fact. I think it just about says it all.
Cheers, Fred Lever.

Great article Fred.

[wwwww]

Hi Guys, read my article in the latest CAB magazine about the 1930 penny, fable and fact. I think it just about says it all.
Cheers, Fred Lever.

Great article, definitely an important read for any pre-decimal collector.

It's not doubling, it's a 2 under the 3. Every authentic 1930 penny including the proofs have it (except where damage or wear near the date makes it impossible to test).

Does this then give further credence to the comment below on the 1929 pennies, which was gleaned from Strand Coins.

"Only one Indian obverse die was used in this year and if we refer to the averages being achieved from general production at the time, it can be deduced that the mintage of this coin was less than 50,000. This was the first use of the Indian obverse die that was sent directly to Melbourne from London in 1922 and which was later used on the 'Indian die' 1930 pennies. A study of the reverse of the 1929 pennies also reveals its close resemblance to the die used to produce the 1930 pennies. It would appear that the last two digits were removed from a 1929 master which was then re-dated to produce the 1930 pennies."

The 1930 reverse die does line up with some 1929s so it certainly could be true, I haven't tested whether it lines up with earlier years though. Fred wrote in his article that the Melbourne mint destroyed dies after the year so it would have to be 1929.

That being said they did mint 1930s with the London obverse, they're extremely rare but they do exist and all the die markers are present on the reverse.

[serenitystan]

g,day
I am new and this is a test post for me.
the question is, if the mint have no record of actually making the normal circulated every day 1930 penny and the latest coin book still shows that the mintage figures are based on the mints 1930 visitor numbers ie: 1200 then how can we say that they actually exist and that the ones in the hands of people are not just fakes there are records of fakes being made in that era, then we need to ask of ourselves how can there be experts on the 1930 penny if they were never made, ( we can safely say they were never made because there is no record of them) so the no coin theory can never be disproved only speculated upon, my thought is that it was never made  in Australia but in India and the shipment to Australia went to the bottom of the ocean in that ship with bulk coin on board that sank in that era off the WA coast, just a thought hey!!!                          Kind Regards Alan
[/size][/font]

Hi Alan, Just about all 1930 pennys were found by collectors and the public in change. Why would a forger make these coins and then put them into circulation so collectors and the public could find them and become rich. There are a lot of stories going around of why,when and how about the penny but i guess will will never know because the workers at the mint are all dead.

[eccles]

There was a lot of coverage in newspapers May/June 1945 after a dealer in Sydney offered 10 shilling for any 1930 penny found.  Looks like it kicked off a lot of interest with at least 3 being found.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230450729
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47718728

A 1950 article also notes that American servicemen paid 5 pounds per coin to collect them when stationed in Australia during WW2, so there must be more of them in cupboards and storage boxes in the US?

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/83057755
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/130336504

There is also a funny Children's story from 1933, it's related somewhat but probably not based on actual events!

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/102271070

-eccles

[Basil]

There was a lot of coverage in newspapers May/June 1945 after a dealer in Sydney offered 10 shilling for any 1930 penny found.  Looks like it kicked off a lot of interest with at least 3 being found.

A 1950 article also notes that American servicemen paid 5 pounds per coin to collect them when stationed in Australia during WW2, so there must be more of them in cupboards and storage boxes in the US?

-eccles

Yeah,also saturation coverage in the 1960's,when i was at School, as we headed to decimal currency.
'Lots' of 1930 pennies went overseas in the late 1960's as they became flavor of the Month with the larger Dealers particulary the USA.How many is another question but you would think they should start turning up at PCGS.

As i have already posted there was an interview with a retired Mint Worker in the early 1960's on the origins of the 1930 Penny.I've had a good look but can't find it online but someone may have kept a copy and it will show up eventually.

[robbiegal]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2009/s2537612.htm

[fred lever]

Hi Alan, welcome to the hobby!

Now guys, I told you the silly myths about the 1930 penny would be harder to kill than a than an imbedded tic!
Alan, please read my article page 10 in the June issue of the CAB magazine this year.
I cover the story in a nut shell and provide 4 critical references that EVERYBODY should read to be fully informed, including catalog and book writers.
So many people want to believe fairy stories not facts and cannot or will not do the necessary study which has already been carried out years ago and published by coin experts far smarter than me!
Cheers, Fred.