Housing affordability

[Ozcoins]

Robbiegal. I suspect that you are a little right I your assessment, but I suspect that the resentment has many sources.
This guy's is describing having done everything right and everything possible and still cannot buy a property planned and worked for for a long time.
Then he gets people (politicians no less) saying "get a better job" and others saying "stop your whinging - you don't know what tough is".
If he is paying $50000 in tax he HAS a very good job. He has saved/invested and still it's not working.
I really feel for the guy.
I had a discussion almost 20 years ago with someone that things were tougher now than when this person started out. He had the same attitude "young people spend all their money on big TVs" "you don't know what tough is" etc etc.
I pointed out that when he started out an average man's wage would cover an average house/car/family.
I said "Do the maths. Where can an average man's wage buy a property".  The only place possible then was Tasmania - but you would likely earn less than the Australian average wage.  So even going as close as possible to leaving Australia did not work back then.
Do the maths now 20 years later.......
Its easy to say "I did it tough", but how do you compare "tough"?
Do the maths....
As a starter
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income_in_Australia_and_New_Zealand
Shows median household income as $57000
https://www.livingin-australia.com/salaries-australia/
Shows average earnings about $80000
The rule of thumb for sensible borrowing that you can pay back seems to be 3.5 time your income.

[autocoupler]

If the average house price in Sydney is around $800,000, there's no way a single income household on the average wage could service something like that, and a dual average  income household would struggle.

But, phew....anyone who pays $50,000 in tax and can't secure a house deal, probably needs to reassess their expectations, just as people of any generation has had to do.

In any era of which we speak, there has always, and always will be areas that are out of reach. Incomes and demand, being the obvious determining factors, and is why the vast majority of new house seekers and young families have always inhabited suburbs that fitted their economic scale.

What has changed as I see it, is current long term policy has created an artificial demand for housing, and is exacerbated by some buyers having the advantage of a legislated increase in their buying power over others.

[seedyrom]

At least ozcoins understands what is going on.

The problem is that blazé comments don't address the problem.
"Reassess their expectations", is such a tripe statement for what is going on.
The only people with blinkers on, are those who think "my house has gone up in value, so there is nothing wrong".

You could say I did everything right, and there's a reason I was on an investment magazine cover in the year 2000.
I was apparently a "property guru". Singled out because I had bought two properties before I was 20.

I was on the path to financial success. But was I really?

Before 20 I had a couple of properties.
Before 30 I had a million dollars of debt.
Before 40 I had a million dollars of cash.

But I still could not afford to buy a decent house in Sydney.

I don't drink or smoke, have a good wage, drive a cheap 17 year old car, had a ton of cash ... but still couldn't afford to buy in a semi-decent part of Sydney.
A ten year old project home in Ryde was going for $2.4m.
We even looked at a crummy place (don't believe the photos) in North Ryde, which had an easement running the full length of the property, and it went for $1.89m.

Those who know Sydney would also know that I am talking about Ryde. Ryde. The old housing commission suburb. It's not inner city.


When you can have someone on a decent wage, have a working wife, no debts, with a million in cash, and still not able to buy a semi-decent place in Sydney ... something is broken.

I know I could buy something out west with a 3+ hour round trip commute. But that is not an answer to housing affordability.

My inlaws bought in Ryde, paid cash, after being in Australia for ten years and working lowly factory jobs.
For me to buy a similar place in the same suburb will be a 50 year mortgage (I've already done 20 years of mortgages to get to this point), and I earn a very decent wage.

[trout]

I know I could buy something out west with a 3+ hour round trip commute. But that is not an answer to housing affordability.

I imagine it would beat working an extra job for 3+ hours a day just to live with the 'in Crowd" in some dilapidated and overpriced old house in the inner city.
From what you have said it seems that you have already speculated in the property market and have made a handsome profit out of it, That makes you part of the problem So whinging and complaining about the current property values is pretty hypocritical don't you think :angel:
20-30 years ago many people did the commute thing and guess what, The properties that those people bought cheaply back then are now worth a small fortune.

[seedyrom]

I don't have a mortgage.

I played the game which was required, however I am concerned about the future generations of young Australians. The cost of entry to the game is beyond what anyone can afford.
20% deposit on a million dollar house? That's a lot of burgers to flip.

I don't put importance on capital growth (which you can't draw on anyway, only lever against), over their needs.

[autocoupler]

The problem is that blazé comments don't address the problem.
"Reassess their expectations", is such a tripe statement for what is going on.

Nothing wrong with compromise, it's what we all do.

I think we all know the system is broken to a certain extent, the question is, what are we prepared to do about it? The answer seems to be, "not much".

I find it bizarre and hypocritical that on one hand we are a nation of people as a whole who do care about the genuine plight of others, we show concern for the environment and the dangers of global warming, all to the point where some could be considered as raving nazi extremists. On the other hand, we try and justify similar poor behavior as being quite OK when it comes to the noble act of earning a living, providing for our families and accumulating wealth. It's gloves off and to hell with anything or anyone who gets in the way.

I don't see anything going on at the moment that would instill any confidence in the ability of our leaders to make the necessary tough decisions to fix this, nor the preparedness of the population to withstand them.

[seedyrom]

I agree ... and I believe that is why President Trump exists.

I'd like to believe that the American population wanted to break the entrenched political families and alliances.
I'd like to think that the American population had decided that big business in the pockets of politicians was not giving them the outcomes they want, nor deserve.
I hope that the American people have realised that career politicians who are somehow able to amass hundreds of millions of dollars in personal wealth (or within "trusts"), are corrupt and needed the "swamp to be drained".

I really hope all of that is the truth, and they didn't really just want a thin-skinned, bigoted, masochistic ass in charge of the nukes.


We certainly deserve better politicians ... but who would have that gig, for that money?



In my line of work, my career can be ended in a moment. The modern workplace is one where spreadsheet decisions impact hundreds of lives with no emotion. Talk to anyone in the city. It seems everyone is a contractor, or fixed term ... and then even full-time employees don't sit there with any form of job security. The workforce is depressed, then they have ridiculous house prices to go home to. There is going to be an absolute epidemic of depression and suicide that occurs in the next 20 years.

I used to be fairly right-wing.
I used to have little sympathy for those who weren't working two jobs to get ahead.

However as I got older, wiser and had children ... my concerns have moved me to a more socialist stand-point.
I guess you could say I've started to care about others. I believe legislation could solve a lot of problems. If politicians were strong enough, they could make a change for the better. Mark Latham (the idiot that he was), actually made some good change to upset the entitlement apple cart. So of course he had to go

[autocoupler]

I used to be fairly right-wing.

Sometimes when something is clearly wrong, it shouldn't matter whether we are right, left or down the middle, it should be seen for what it is. Our  politicians are so busy defending their failing platforms, they can't see the forest for the trees.

I've always thought of myself as travelling down the right side of the left lane, although, I may have fleetingly crossed the double white lines momentarily on a couple of occasions but never ventured so far left that I was knocking people off the footpath

[interest]

I agree ... and I believe that is why President Trump exists.

I'd like to believe that the American population wanted to break the entrenched political families and alliances.
I'd like to think that the American population had decided that big business in the pockets of politicians was not giving them the outcomes they want, nor deserve.
I hope that the American people have realised that career politicians who are somehow able to amass hundreds of millions of dollars in personal wealth (or within "trusts"), are corrupt and needed the "swamp to be drained".

I really hope all of that is the truth, and they didn't really just want a thin-skinned, bigoted, masochistic ass in charge of the nukes.


We certainly deserve better politicians ... but who would have that gig, for that money?



In my line of work, my career can be ended in a moment. The modern workplace is one where spreadsheet decisions impact hundreds of lives with no emotion. Talk to anyone in the city. It seems everyone is a contractor, or fixed term ... and then even full-time employees don't sit there with any form of job security. The workforce is depressed, then they have ridiculous house prices to go home to. There is going to be an absolute epidemic of depression and suicide that occurs in the next 20 years.

I used to be fairly right-wing.
I used to have little sympathy for those who weren't working two jobs to get ahead.

However as I got older, wiser and had children ... my concerns have moved me to a more socialist stand-point.
I guess you could say I've started to care about others. I believe legislation could solve a lot of problems. If politicians were strong enough, they could make a change for the better. Mark Latham (the idiot that he was), actually made some good change to upset the entitlement apple cart. So of course he had to go

So how did you get into coin collecting & what is you favorite coin or banknote.

[seedyrom]

Funnily enough, I really got interested in coin collecting, when I was working at TABs around Sydney.
Working in a cash handling environment was always interesting, I even had one guy pay for a bet with proof coins once. Face value only.

Started working there when I was 14. Remained working through uni, and even when I had a proper job, would work 9-5 at my real job, then 6-11 at the TAB.

I did that so I could buy a house. Because they were affordable back then if you worked hard. Not these days however.

[robbiegal]

well
if i coud boast having a million in cash before 40
there is no F*** way I'd be whining or take the time to listen to a whiner

i'd be more than thankful for having made it that far - a millin dollars is still a lot of money


i'm outta this thread

it is way out of my league but I am sure that others here might fit in OK with it

[seedyrom]

You don't get it. I understand that.
If you aren't actively seeking a property you can't understand what the next generation face.

You can have a million dollars, and not afford a house in a decent area of Sydney. That is the point of the thread. Affordability.
Affordability.

Not how much does someone have. It's more how much does someone need.

I went through at least 300 properties when I was looking. Auction campaigns which were just three weeks long. Being so outgunned by Mainland Chinese investors, that I was only an underbidder once, and at that place, it was like the tour bus hadn't pulled up.
I'd laugh, cause all the pollies were on the news "the statistics say that it's not overseas investors which are the problem". They lie. Go to an Auction in Sydney. They even have interpreters there.


There's a problem with affordability, and Mr Morrison's latest plan to allow young people to access their super is ridiculous.
20 year olds have bugger all super. And even if they could, it only allows them to take a bigger mortgage. It's not stemming the problem of affordability.
On a cold night I could give a homeless bum $5 ... but it's not like he can buy a hotel room. It is still too unaffordable.

[robbiegal]

true
same here
the local investors here all own around 12 houses each - most being people who I have worked with
let alone what the overseas ones own

there should have been more control on the buying capabilities for investors

but we have a full on capitalist society

and greed underpins this system  - not quality of life, home ownership for citizens etc

[interest]

The simple fact of the matter is,
I want to sell my house for the highest price I can get.
Somebody wants to buy my house for the lowest price they can get.
Never the twain shall meet.

[seedyrom]

The simple fact of the matter is,
I want to sell my house for the highest price I can get.
Somebody wants to buy my house for the price they can afford.
Never the twain shall meet.

Fixed it for Sydney