from ???????

[Robster]

Tried, still here! :angel:

[ausjack]

No it was tomorrow night Robster :laugh2:
Thought I'd have a trial run but all I could do was :stinker: :@ :zomby: :mocking:
If we can't get something like the NBN to work :dash1: how would we go with something as complicated as a reactor :shock: Gee they can't even build a bridge up here :dodgy:

[autocoupler]

Here's one from Captain risky. Why not drop all those spent fuel rods into a volcano, one that's not spewing crap out and never likely to, but one that's just bubbling away like in Jellystone park :biggrin: At least this way all the nasty bits would be returned to their maker :whistle2:

[Fulvio]

So why have they been saying that we should become a dump for all the waste from the crap we sell the rest of the world.

Because they're fixated on the status quo, which is Light Water reactors. Make no mistake, the companies who build them and who supply the fuel rods, do NOT want to see Thorium reactors, because that would like having cars that ran on tap water. They WANT things to continue as they are, and that means storing the waste for thousands of years.

As long as we fail to move to more sensible nuclear options, we absolutely MUST store this stuff. And if we have to do that, it makes sense to put it in the most remote, most geologically stable and politically/socially safe place on the planet. Which is west of a line from Darwin to Adelaide.

The alternative is to put it in places where people live, where unstable governments and terrorists are, or where the joint could be wiped off the map by any number of natural disasters.

Plus, we could make a shitload of money from it, which would be a good thing for the country.

[JeffH]

Plus, we could make a shitload of money from it, which would be a good thing for the country.

It Ain't Necessarily So

[ausjack]

I agree with Jeff

I don't think it's worth it to potentially poison any land in oz just for the sake of a few bucks that will only be spent on politicians anyway :dodgy:

No, I don't have kid and pretty high chance I never will but i have nieces and nephews and many of my cousins have them and the chances are they'll all have kids and it's them I'm thinking about as sooner or later it will end up in the water and then what, so I say let the countries that bought it deal with it. You can't take you waste back to woolies or coles and tell them to get rid of it, even though I'd like to. Like I said earlier in this thread, who's going to monitor all this waste 150 year or more.

[robbiegal]

bit like the mr fluffy asbestos crisis in canberra now
or the other poor bastards who worked in the asbestos industry across the country


they all knew the dangers of the product /s

[Basil]

Asbestos use in Australia is criminal,show on SBS a couple of Weeks ago on dangers in UK Edwardian homes. According to this programme the first recorded warning on the dangers of Asbestos was by a Female Factory Inspector in London in 1899.From the late 1920's to early 1930's UK Medical experts had established a link between Asbestos and Lung disease but it still continued to be used especially in Aust.
Same scenario as Tobacco,Multinationals fight it every inch of the way.

[Fulvio]

Lets get a little perspective into this....



You live in Romania, and you're worried about your kids being poisoned by something being done in Ireland.

Do you see how insane this is, especially when we're talking about removing materials which are actually IN those tiny (by comparison) countries, where there are hundreds of millions of people, versus an area with just about zero people in it.

But hey, you're proving my point, which is that this is not a rational discussion, as opinions have been formed by propaganda over many decades, and is unlikely to change in a hurry.

And that's why the world is doomed.

[ausjack]

So your prepared to sacrifice most of europe or you can guarantee the waste at some stage won't end up in the water. Yes you can be like the politicians and say it's all good as it won't happen in our life time but at some stage down the track it's gonna get into the water and then what :huh: And I'm still waiting for us to make these reactors your talking about because big business what's cheap and nasty so they can make more profit, not high cost and little profit, unless you've managed to persuade big business to change their mind :angel:  


And as for there being nothing there, sorry but there is always something, just because most people never get there is a different story and I bet there's people that live in these areas that would also care and even if it's on the other side of the country it's still our country and I hadn't heard about a dump in WA but SA is a different story.

Yes Basil and RG we have an asbestos mine not far from here at a little place called Baryulgil and they've had so much trouble  because of the mine for many many years and there's still piles of the stuff laying around blowing in the wind. Yes I've been there a few times as I use to work on a cattle station up there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryulgil,_New_South_Wales

[ausjack]

A couple of other things to ponder about are "energy efficient light bulbs", has anyone seen any ads at all here in oz about what to do if one breaks. I seen an ad from the US years ago that if one breaks get out of the house as quick as you can and go back after 20 minutes because of the mercury used in them but to this day nothing here. I couldn't find the US ad but did find this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPTbSRF-Yb0

Another is coal seam gas, years ago they showed a show from the US saying not to let them do it in your country and they showed water ways and taps that you can set on fire but the government said it's all good and won't happen here but not so long ago I seen a show out here where a farmer set a creek on fire on his property and yet we have more and more turning up everywhere all the time :dash1:

And finally for this rant, the libs said recently that after giving the adani mine the go ahead that they have authorities to make sure no run off poisons the reef but after everything else that's happened can they be trusted as once the reef is poisoned how hard will it be to fix something so grand. The libs spooked about it being worth billions but where does that money go, back to india :scratch_one-s_head: and they also said it would create tens of thousands of jobs but then in 2015 an adani spokesman told the land court in brissie that it might create 1,464 so that's a long way short of thousands. And who pays for the unmanned trains and the train line to get the coal to port and will they do like that ship did a few years ago and run aground on the reef because they want to take a short cut across the reef to save money.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-05/what-we-know-about-adani-and-the-carmichael-mine-project/8094244

Anyway something else to think about, end rant :angel:

[Fulvio]

Lets see...

CFLs - Amazing what a difference 5 years makes. Do they even SELL CFLs anymore? You can buy LEDs for a fraction of what CFLs cost back in the day, and they last longer and use less power. Times change.

Mercury - We used to play with Mercury all the time when we were kids. I remember cracking open piles of dead batteries dad had in the shop and filling plastic jars with the stuff. Hasn't killed me yet. Or him. So I seriously doubt a shattered CFL is going to require decontamination teams in hazmat suits.

CSG - Yes, we've all seen the burning creeks. There's a pollie who regularly takes film crews out to make the point. Thing is, this happens whether you conduct fracking or not. Its a natural process, as methane leaks through the earth. You'd never even know on dry land, but it makes a neat party trick in water.

Asbestos - Horrible, nasty stuff, that again can't be kept out of the environment, since it is after all a natural material.

Coal - The idea of building a new coal mine in this day and age has to be one of the stupidest things EVER. Coal has had its day, whether we turn to Nuclear energy as much of the world is doing, or develop practical cost-effective grid storage systems for solar/wind generation. There's not even a commercial case for coal mines, let alone environmental ones.

Waste storage - See that area west of the great Artesian Basin? That's the West Australian Shield, which is basically a solid mass of rock. That's why its the most stable dirt on the planet, and the safest place to store dangerous things. And yes, it may be a while before we pry the cold, clammy hands of industry off the Nuclear steering wheel, but it WILL happen. China is now actively developing Thorium reactors, and expect to have them operational by the end of the decade. It shouldn't be hard... all the work was already done back in the 1950's after all.

[autocoupler]

Turning off our coal exports may require a little thought. Based on 2014 figures coal represents 15% of Australia's total exports, about $40,000,000,000, so who knows what it is today. Surprisingly Japan was our major buyer of coal at 34% compared to China at 24%.

I'm not suggesting coal based energy should go on indefinitely, and some kind of rethink needs to happen, but the impact of knee jerk policy would be massive with regard to jobs and revenue.

It would be interesting to see how any Government would deal with deciding what programs and services would be cut, as it's hard to see how such a large chunk of our trade could be replaced overnight.

[r9453]

I don't think Australia should stop exporting coal but I don't think we need any new mines either. Surely China, Japan and India will simply stop buying it, sooner or later.

P.S. I like AJs map, it reminds of one of my school text books.

[ausjack]

Lets see...

CFLs - Amazing what a difference 5 years makes. Do they even SELL CFLs anymore? You can buy LEDs for a fraction of what CFLs cost back in the day, and they last longer and use less power. Times change.

I don't know if they still sell CFL bulbs (they probably do) but most of the lights here have them and same as the last house and the one before that as well and this place has 3 LED's as that's what the new fans had in the lights.

Mercury - We used to play with Mercury all the time when we were kids. I remember cracking open piles of dead batteries dad had in the shop and filling plastic jars with the stuff. Hasn't killed me yet. Or him. So I seriously doubt a shattered CFL is going to require decontamination teams in hazmat suits.

Well it might not have killed you but that explains a lot :mocking:

CSG - Yes, we've all seen the burning creeks. There's a pollie who regularly takes film crews out to make the point. Thing is, this happens whether you conduct fracking or not. Its a natural process, as methane leaks through the earth. You'd never even know on dry land, but it makes a neat party trick in water.

Yes this might happen naturally in some areas but how would you like it if you had a nice property that supported a few head of cattle and it was your livelihood and a mine just come in and said we're doing it and don't give a rats what you say and then next minute it's poisoned your water so you have no water for either yourself or stock to drink and there's nothing you can do and you can't sell because no one want to buy it. It's a lovely area around here and I'd hate to see it stuffed up by this like it has in other areas around here as they're doing it everywhere and what happens to all this gas? and why are they saying the prices are constantly going up. We should be buying it cheap and then any surplus get sold like the US does not sell overseas and then buy it back, same as we do with a lot of things, makes no sense to me. People in the cities just don't get it as most never leave them so don't care what happens. Lets put mines in the cities and poison their water and see what they say.  

Asbestos - Horrible, nasty stuff, that again can't be kept out of the environment, since it is after all a natural material.

Yes it's natural but does less damage if left as it is instead of mining it.

Coal - The idea of building a new coal mine in this day and age has to be one of the stupidest things EVER. Coal has had its day, whether we turn to Nuclear energy as much of the world is doing, or develop practical cost-effective grid storage systems for solar/wind generation. There's not even a commercial case for coal mines, let alone environmental ones.

I'm gonna jump off the cliff so come on little lemming follow me :angel: There are a lot of alternatives now days, wind farms, tidal etc.

Waste storage - See that area west of the great Artesian Basin? That's the West Australian Shield, which is basically a solid mass of rock. That's why its the most stable dirt on the planet, and the safest place to store dangerous things. And yes, it may be a while before we pry the cold, clammy hands of industry off the Nuclear steering wheel, but it WILL happen. China is now actively developing Thorium reactors, and expect to have them operational by the end of the decade. It shouldn't be hard... all the work was already done back in the 1950's after all.

[/color]

OMG so being "a solid rock" means that it stores water, mmm ok. But yet again I haven't heard of any talk about a dump there but they have about SA and can the aboriginals use the land at Maralinga after what we done there :huh: As for china, well if they're gonna take another 10 years we might be able to do it in a century or two knowing us as we can't even put a second bridge across the river here :dodgy:
Imagine poor Mark and PP glowing in the dark, not good Now Roster on the other hand is a totally different story as we need to know exactly where he is at all times :mocking: Sorry mate I wanna be good :angel: :friends:

Turning off our coal exports may require a little thought. Based on 2014 figures coal represents 15% of Australia's total exports, about $40,000,000,000, so who knows what it is today. Surprisingly Japan was our major buyer of coal at 34% compared to China at 24%.

I'm not suggesting coal based energy should go on indefinitely, and some kind of rethink needs to happen, but the impact of knee jerk policy would be massive with regard to jobs and revenue.

It would be interesting to see how any Government would deal with deciding what programs and services would be cut, as it's hard to see how such a large chunk of our trade could be replaced overnight.

Maybe if we taxed the mines like they should have been all along instead of letting them just take take take we mightn't have some of the problems that we do now and also if we didn't sell the majority of the assets and tax the rich and big business like they should be, and didn't pay the pollies unrealistic money and lurks and perks things might be better but it's ok as they said the other day that they're going to take 3 billion away from welfare recipients to pay for their new child care policy, so yet again it's easier to screw the old and disability and people that can't afford it but then they expect us to still vote for them..oh and not to forget getting rid of medicare and other services so we're more like the US :dodgy:

The mining game is employing less and less people all the time with everything being automated, gee even the trains aren't manned or the mining equipment because it's cheaper and safer not to employ people.

P.S. I like AJs map, it reminds of one of my school text books.

Glad you liked it Rob :friends: