Bent threepence

[nealeffendi]

Depends on how badly bent a coin is IMHO. Obviously anything that is bent acutely would be impossible to do anyway, but I see nothing wrong with removing a slight curvature that has not left any visible sign of creasing of damage.

Because it is impossible to return the coin to its original shape once deformed no matter how minor. All you can do is his the damage from plain sight. Metal bent is metal stretched and you cannot unstretch metal

But is bent metal truly stretched if it is curved without an angled point in it? Think of those bimetallic strips where temperature changes cause the strip to bend (different metals expand by different amounts so the strip bends), when the temperature returns to normal the strip straightens and is unchanged from how it started.

"How many 1930 pennies would you like, and do you want some 2000 mules to go with that order?"

Maybe this is where the TPG's and recorded provenance can hold off the onslaught, then say for example in the year 2525 we draw a line in the sand, and everything after that is considered fake :dodgy::angel:

So in another 10-15 years when the technology allows them to make 100% perfect copies of the coins what is to stop them making 100% perfect copies of the slabs? What will they do when there are 2000 slabs all with the same PCGS number and the same coin in each and every nuance of the slab is the same (including scratched slabs and other defects). Now try and pick the real one from the 1999 fakes.

[autocoupler]

So in another 10-15 years when the technology allows them to make 100% perfect copies of the coins what is to stop them making 100% perfect copies of the slabs? What will they do when there are 2000 slabs all with the same PCGS number and the same coin in each and every nuance of the slab is the same (including scratched slabs and other defects). Now try and pick the real one from the 1999 fakes.

This is where recorded provenance steps in. All slab registration numbers attributed to nealeffendi will be recorded in an account similar to where you park your spending money today. When any item changes hands, it's unique I.D. number will need to be released by the registered owner and transferred to the buyer (I think something similar is already in place with the TPG system) in the same way we move our money around today, and any transaction outside these boundaries will be a fail just as what happens now when some dodger tries to access a secure account. No doubt the success of any regime like this will be ensured by banning all new registrations and exchanges in the year 2525. All those holding duplicates may as well then go play SAS (skip a slab) on the water.

[ausjack]

Love this song and I can't resist any more and know you've been hangin for it auto so just for your pleasure mate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSqLfuRN18

[autocoupler]

Love this song and I can't resist any more and know you've been hangin for it auto so just for your pleasure mate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdSqLfuRN18

:laugh2: funny thing is AJ I'm just back from the TUBE with this, yes it's a great song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic&list=RDizQB2-Kmiic#t=45

Just to keep things on topic, did I see correctly, was that a bent dime on the stage? :biggrin:

[nealeffendi]

So in another 10-15 years when the technology allows them to make 100% perfect copies of the coins what is to stop them making 100% perfect copies of the slabs? What will they do when there are 2000 slabs all with the same PCGS number and the same coin in each and every nuance of the slab is the same (including scratched slabs and other defects). Now try and pick the real one from the 1999 fakes.

This is where recorded provenance steps in. All slab registration numbers attributed to nealeffendi will be recorded in an account similar to where you park your spending money today. When any item changes hands, it's unique I.D. number will need to be released by the registered owner and transferred to the buyer (I think something similar is already in place with the TPG system) in the same way we move our money around today, and any transaction outside these boundaries will be a fail just as what happens now when some dodger tries to access a secure account. No doubt the success of any regime like this will be ensured by banning all new registrations and exchanges in the year 2525. All those holding duplicates may as well then go play SAS (skip a slab) on the water.

To mix coin forum topics ... I hope they don't rely on the mob who ran the census to store the provenance records. Or the twits who ran the DNC emails, or Cankles Clinton with her "lost" emails or the hacked Medicare records or the stolen credit card numbers or the hacked Bitcoin accounts or the....you get the drift of what can happen when there are millions of hackers out there who are not as all white hat as Wikileaks.

[ausjack]

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: anything is possible mate
:scratch_one-s_head: not 100% sure but I think you might be right but you have to look really closely :blush2:

[Fulvio]

you get the drift of what can happen when there are millions of hackers out there who are not as all white hat as Wikileaks.

Which is where blockchains come in. They don't rely on ANYONE for their authority. Much as I know you guys all hate cryptocurrencies, you REALLY should climb aboard, if only to learn what makes them tick and get some practical experience.

For example, I ran a test last month to show how Dogecoin wallets could be used for micropayments/donations for pictures.

http://fulvio55.altervista.org/pic/DHi9FAAzZpFzzxfwszk8R2hs3B3QueYTMR/ is the test page I wrapped around a pic I took of a friend's crippled and now recently deceased dog. Note that both the picture name and the location are a Dogecoin wallet address. The page also contains a QR code (though this could be embedded in the image itself) and a link to the wallet address on the blockchain:

https://bitinfocharts.com/dogecoin/address/DHi9FAAzZpFzzxfwszk8R2hs3B3QueYTMR

This in turn shows two blocks where payments were received. The blocks show the transaction ID's for those payments, like this: https://bitinfocharts.com/dogecoin/tx/f4a73db301630af7408b07578660155f8619f4118b2b3eca4d48a9c11d6eeed6

Those transactions are permanent and immutable. They do not require a central authority to create, hold, authenticate or otherwise have anything to do with them. They are numbers, after all, which self-evidently exist.

You can put literally ANY data into a blockchain. And once written, it becomes a permanent part of the public record. Ideal for proving provenance.

[autocoupler]

To mix coin forum topics ... I hope they don't rely on the mob who ran the census to store the provenance records. Or the twits who ran the DNC emails, or Cankles Clinton with her "lost" emails or the hacked Medicare records or the stolen credit card numbers or the hacked Bitcoin accounts or the....you get the drift of what can happen when there are millions of hackers out there who are not as all white hat as Wikileaks.

True, there are dodgers everywhere, but so far at least they have failed to compromise the banks, or should I say I don't know anyone personally who has had their account trashed when they haven't acted irresponsibly themselves. Another thing on the plus side for the banks, they still accept bent coins......just staying on topic :angel:

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: anything is possible mate
:scratch_one-s_head: not 100% sure but I think you might be right but you have to look really closely :blush2:

:laugh2: I knew you could find it AJ

[ausjack]

Here to help mate :friends:

I don't have any sort of cards and mainly because of my crappy memory so I go into the banks and actually sign for my money

I have heard of fake slabs but never seen any pic's or seen one in hand yet but I'm sure someone would have tried by now as they make fakes of just about everything else :dash1:

[Fulvio]

I have heard of fake slabs

A slab is a slab. There's nothing fake about them.

However, what you put IN it, that's another matter entirely. A dodgy coin with a fake label and hologram... mmm... what are the chances you wouldn't get caught? Much easier to sell the coin raw and untraceable, no?

[ausjack]

Yes, true but never underestimate what the criminals will try if they think they can get away with something.

[Fulvio]

Yes, true but never underestimate what the criminals will try if they think they can get away with something.

Yes, but holograms are a little harder to fake than most things.

[ausjack]

True but I used to be into trading cards and they have a little hologram square about 4mm x 4mm and they have tried faking them and some got it right and they've faked our notes and especially the $50 with all it's security stuff and some of the crims are getting pretty cluey.

[nealeffendi]

I have heard of fake slabs

A slab is a slab. There's nothing fake about them.

However, what you put IN it, that's another matter entirely. A dodgy coin with a fake label and hologram... mmm... what are the chances you wouldn't get caught? Much easier to sell the coin raw and untraceable, no?

There are fake slabs and I've seen more than a few online. Most come from China and either contain a fake coin or a real coin that is a lower grade than on the slab or a coin that has been doctored and would have been rejected for legit slabbing. If the serial numbers match and the slab copied is of an older slab (no photo to compare to) then how will it be found out?. Now it is probably hard for them to do it to our coins as the numbers slabbed isn't there but for say a Morgan Dollar there can be 10,000 plus coins slabbed with the same date and if the fakers put a $50 B/Unc that might have made MS64 in a fake MS66 slab they will make a nice profit.

[robbiegal]

Nobles auction has even had David gee's forgeries for sale
the Royal Australian Mint even has a display of his dies and coins (and that was before he died)

now that is pretty damned spectacular for forgeries
the Twible and Mander forgeries often sell for more than the real coin

so the moral of the story is - if you are going to make forgeries do a good job and it will pay well