Fake 1923 Half Penny in Heritage Auction

markn · January 06, 2013, 09:57:59 AM

NGC may have a buy-back guarantee like PCGS. I am not sure.

MobOfRoos · January 06, 2013, 10:10:35 AM

Quote from: 'Nevol' pid='5809' dateline='1357427398'Would the owner/seller have any comeback with NGC? They are the ones that got it wrong, so someone is out of pocket due to their error, and someone else had a windfall I guess.

I had a look on the NGC website

QuoteNGC COIN GRADING GUARANTEE
All US and World coins and all tokens and medals certified and encapsulated by NGC are guaranteed authentic.

So it would seem that the owner would be able to get compensation.

I know I have been pretty vocal in my objections to slabbed coins but I never imagined this would happen.
The elephant in the room question is.........how many other altered date coins have been slabbed and are sitting in peoples collections?

markn · January 06, 2013, 10:18:01 AM

Quote from: 'MobOfRoos' pid='5812' dateline='1357429235'The elephant in the room question is.........how many other altered date coins have been slabbed and are sitting in peoples collections?

Putting your attitude toward TPG coins aside there's a much bigger elephant in the room.

A very small percentage of Australian coins are TPG graded. And a lot of Australian dealers show no particular ability to spot skillful altered dates. So, how many other altered date coins are not slabbed and sitting in peoples collections?

And something else to think about, if NGC pay-out on this coin how many times do you think they will make this mistake again? I bet they will put an internal process in place to review ALL 1923 half pennies more closely to ensure that it never happens again.

trout · January 06, 2013, 10:28:41 AM

A very small percentage of Australian coins are TPG graded. And a lot of Australian dealers show no particular ability to spot skillful altered dates. So, how many other altered date coins are not slabbed and sitting in peoples collections?

good point Mark :good:

And something else to think about, if NGC pay-out on this coin how many times do you think they will make this mistake again? I bet they will put an internal process in place to review ALL 1923 half pennies more closely to ensure that it never happens again.

I have grave doubts that a dealer would be willing to "Take a Hit" on a big ticket coin and simply pass it on to an unsuspecting punter.

We ALL have to take due care and suss out the coins we buy and stop relying on someone elses opinion all the time.

Great job on this you mob:yahoo:
At least that is one of the dodgy coins out of the loop.:dodgy:

Robster · January 06, 2013, 10:56:42 AM

Congratulations to all who assisted in this.! All take a gold star from the teachers desk.!:yahoo:

wwwww · January 06, 2013, 02:53:01 PM

NGC will buy the coin in, it's part of their guarantee, besides they don't want an altered date floating around in an NGC slab - NGC is really at the mercy of the owner and the owner can use this to negotiate a favourable outcome.

purplepennyhunter · January 06, 2013, 04:09:53 PM

The interesting thing here is the price difference between Krause, McDonald's and past sales histories. If NGC pay on (their own) Krause value someone will be laughing all the way to the bank.

wwwww · January 06, 2013, 04:22:34 PM

Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5839' dateline='1357450793'The interesting thing here is the price difference between Krause, McDonald's and past sales histories. If NGC pay on (their own) Krause value someone will be laughing all the way to the bank.

It would certainly be interesting to find out the outcome but I suspect NGC's settlement will include an NDA.

Fr45h3R · January 06, 2013, 07:07:16 PM

Quote from: 'wwwww' pid='5834' dateline='1357446181'NGC will buy the coin in, it's part of their guarantee, besides they don't want an altered date floating around in an NGC slab - NGC is really at the mercy of the owner and the owner can use this to negotiate a favourable outcome.

Would NGC be able to go back to the party who submitted the coin for grading? Surely these details would be on record.
Somewhere along the line, a profit has been made..

-rob

robbiegal · January 08, 2013, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: 'bellyflorin' pid='5803' dateline='1357421561':yahoo: the 1923 half has been withdrawn , there's another coin in that auction that NGC could have had a closer look :angel::whistle2:, i wish i was a rich man :mafia:

hummm, wonder if anyone will write to HA complaining about that one?? (giggle)

purplepennyhunter · January 08, 2013, 07:54:25 PM

We got a reply from NGC, they have seized the coin!

trout · January 08, 2013, 08:29:14 PM

Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5996' dateline='1357637065'We got a reply from NGC, they have seized the coin!

WOW, I hope the poor bugger who graded it has retired by now

Ozcoins · January 09, 2013, 08:03:34 AM

Quote from: 'purplepennyhunter' pid='5996' dateline='1357637065'We got a reply from NGC, they have seized the coin!

This is interesting....
I am reading it like "they have stolen the coin"...
It is not theirs until some agreement has been arrived at with the owner.

markn · January 09, 2013, 08:05:21 AM

Their exact words were:

"Thank you for the email. We were in contact with Heritage over the weekend about this and the coin has been removed from their auction. They are sending the coin back to us."

Ozcoins · January 09, 2013, 08:25:58 AM

That leave a different impression (for me at least).