WANTED: A business suggestion for the Purple Penny

[ausjack]

Sounds interesting thanks for the help. Interested on testing it out. Btw could PVC transfer from touching PVC pages (which may or may not feel a bit sticky) then touching coins? I don't think so but interested to hear nonetheless?

Yes, from what I understand PVC will leach so no don't put ANY PVC near your coins is the best advice, better to be safe than sorry :angel:

[oh my florin]

I know it can leach AJ tho would it be enough to simply touch a PVC page then a raw coin not near the pages for the PVC to transfer? Anyway moved out the PVC album and put it seperately tho paranoid about previously touching the PVC pages with my hand then handling raw coins being placed in 2x2s which were then put in my safe Lighthouse album. Not a great explanation but perhaps a bit better now? I am probably being silly here but having genetics of anxiety and ocd on either side probably doesn't help lol.

[Nevol]

I don't think there'd be a problem the way you describe it omf.  If you were handling already sticky PVC damaged coins, then I'd be making sure Not to touch any good raw coins, but just handling the pages shouldn't do any harm.

but.... be very careful handling raw coins without gloves, fingerprints can be very harmful and impossible to remove without damaging the coin.  You might not be able to see the fingerprints now, but wait a few years..., unless of course you are only handling them by the edges. :winkextra:

[oh my florin]

Thanks Nevol you put my mind at rest very paranoid about my coins as I see them as a part of history and would be absolutely devastated if they were damaged in my care. Anyway I always handle by the edges even my ancients which aren't usually treated like that by the ancients guys and gals and that is only in the process of putting them into the 2x2s outside that I never touch the coin itself.

[runway]

Mylar 2x2s are best way to initially protect coin then store in a 2x2 sheet holder I like the Lighthouse ones

[Fulvio]

Here we go again, for the umpteenth time. :dodgy:

What does the damage to our coins are chemical reactions, mostly involving acids, which in turn mostly involve moisture. Therefore its critical to exclude these so they don't come into contact with the metal.

PVC, as we all know by now, leaches the plasticisers which make it soft. Which react with moisture to form acids which eat the coin surface.

Note that these are gasses. Its not about something being in contact with the PVC. A PVC folder containing 'safe' pages will still damage the coins, if the gasses can get to the coins.

And as I recently reported with the foam cushions, plastics are not impermeable to gasses.

It comes down to the size of the molecules and the thickness and structure of the plastic. In other words, is the gas 'thread' able to pass through the 'eye' of the plastic 'needle'?

The answer is yes. Look at this table:



Notice that none of the numbers are zero? The best by far is PET, but even that is permeable. PP, which is what 'archival' pages are made of, is thirty times worse. Even HDPE is ten times worse.

There is of course a tradeoff. Safety/Price/Convenience are pretty much mutually exclusive. I opt for LDPE, because its free, and I store the heat-sealed bags in larger, thicker bags. I am now considering giving up the ability to easily access/view my coins by switching to metallised multi-layer bags, such as used in chip packets. These are very very good at preventing gasses passing through them. Leave a packet of chips on a hot dashboard and see what happens to it.

If you're going to use PP pages or flips (also PP, regardless of brand names), store them in a PET jar. In a foil bag. In a vacuum. In a vault. :angel:

Oh, and all pages deform. Marks are not a sign of PVC. Smell and texture are pretty good indicators though.

[oh my florin]

Yep that is fine I store my coins in a lighthouse album with a slip cover in lighthouse pages in Renniks or lighthouse 2x2s I used to unknowingly store my album with PVC pages on top of it (I will try a flame test this afternoon to confirm) and keep a coins on the shelf below also in 2x2s (they do crack open at times when not in pages which is a little annoying) alongside my PCGS coins in the blue pcgs box. Otherwise it is an small 60 by 80 cm space but it is temperature controlled and low humidity which I think are needed for the decomposition of PVC.

On a side it's i remember hearing that light can also breakdown pvc. So probably best not to build anything that isn't underground with it. Think they use it primarily in walls for fire retardant cause of the chlorine and in piping now a days.

Sorry guys and gals I am going to bow out of this thread just thinking about it causes me anxiety.

[markn]

If you're going to use PP pages or flips (also PP, regardless of brand names), store them in a PET jar. In a foil bag. In a vacuum. In a vault. :angel:

SAFLIPS are not PP, they PET.

[Fulvio]

(they do crack open at times when not in pages which is a little annoying)

Easiest fix for that is to use non-adhesive 2x2's (which are also cheaper) and iron them shut. Its permanent, but then so are the self-adhesive ones, eh?

---

Saflips are PET, eh? OK, that's cool.

[JeffH]

What I want to see is album pages made out of coin friendly plastic that fit 1½x1½ holders. 30 coins per album page instead of 20.
Smaller coins only of course.

[markn]

I think the ideas are all good.  The trouble is that tooling and setup costs for a product for the very small Australian market are horrific.  And the actual sales volume is TINY.  For example our starter pack which includes an album, 10 x 20 pocket pages, and 4 packs of SAFLIPs with inserts is $95 landed at your door.  That's a complete storage solution for 200 coins for under $100.  Now, I don't know about you but one of those starter packs is enough storage for me for two years, perhaps even three.  So a collector like me would buy one album every few years. And this is with our pages which were the simplest design we could come up with  and SAFLIPS are about the best 2x2 holder there is.  They can be used for almost everything.  Despite that the volume just isn't there in Australia.  We could look at export but we have no marketing expertise overseas, no money to get our product overseas, and honestly, we don't really want to.

Compare this with a page with a flap on the top of each pocket.  Tooling and setup costs would be stupendous.  Let alone how long it would take to design something.  And I doubt we'd sell a quarter of the volume of the normal pages because they'd likely be twice as expensive.  We've seen a lot of collectors turn their noses up at our pages at about $1.10 each because they can get PVC pages for under a dollar a page.  The same applies with 1.5" pages.  I don't actually know anyone in RL who uses 1.5" holders anymore and I can recall one dealer who has them in his stock books.  So that leaves a couple of people on this forum.  Let's tool up for them, that'll be $500.  Per.  Page.  Uh, yeah, nah I don't think so.

[robbiegal]

just a though
that was all

looks like a no go

maybe I will get out the iron and make some for myself!! ha ha
I did seal some pages up like how you guys have it demonstrated I you blog
that will do me for now

thanks for considering some suggestion seven though they appear non-viable

[markn]

just a though
that was all

looks like a no go

maybe I will get out the iron and make some for myself!! ha ha
I did seal some pages up like how you guys have it demonstrated I you blog
that will do me for now

thanks for considering some suggestion seven though they appear non-viable

I think they are good ideas.  Our market is so piddly though.  Our little mini album was designed by us from the ground up and the pages with the flap on top were a nightmare to get made.  And they cost as much as the big album pages despite there being only about a third of the material in them.  They still won't hold a heavy coin in them though unless the coin is in a 2x2 or a SAFLIP.  They'd need to be completely re-engineered to hold coin in them.  The PVC hold coins in them because of the stiffness of the material and the higher coefficient of friction compared with polyprope.

That being said the mini albums work a treat for tin badges.  Hold them in there nicely and they look awesome!

[trout]

If you just want to store extra/spare coins then Fulvio came up with some ingenious ideas involving bank bags and a heat sealer :good:

All my extras I put in saflips and heat seal them then shove them in a sandwich sealable bag.
The smaller coins are great in the 2.5x2.5 saflips because you can 4 per side and use the heat sealer to keep them separated.

I currently have 12 of the PP albums for different collections to replace the crappy albums I had my coins stored in.
I also bought a few others to send to a couple of Mates because I was so impressed with them.
You would be amazed at the amount of coins you can store in these puppies , Its way over 200 per album :good:

[robbiegal]

yep yep
I have the pp albums as well

just wanted a less serious storage for the more ave. circ or a tad better
a lot of the time that is all a pre-dec collector has  

I flip ém and pop them into the pages

but having gone through a few hundred this week-end it made me think that the non pvc coin page might be an option

I can cut the flip in half but then I have to seal it & then they slide out of the pages

I saw fulvios sealed bank bags but they are rolls
I do make up rolls of my better grade coins in cellophane bags and tape them up + label as well

anyways I don't have a great deal of coins but I have kept better grade coins and wanted to store them for a while longer i.e. for when I retire ha ha

anyways just thoughts