1922 Penny research warts and all

autocoupler · August 03, 2014, 10:34:57 AM

Quote from: 'Robster' pid='56074' dateline='1406985386'Flat based lettering, English obverse, 'tit' on 9. filled die (top scroll).

"Slightly more confused today than yesterday. lol. I would agree from my samples (approx. 40) there is 3 versions of reverse lettering. Understand how much work you have put in Autocoupler. :shok:

Robster, Your coin is a Wide date from group 3. The alignments for both 2's should radiate from the centre of the coin. If you look at your large image of the reverse it's easier to see the alignment of the first 2 is between dentils 9 and 10. The alignment for the second 2 is at right edge of dentil 15.

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='56076' dateline='1406998067'"Minted in London" is not correct Autocoupler.The London in London dies refers to where the master die was first used (in this case in London for the 1911 penny). Both Melbourne and Perth used the London dies and Perth also used the Indian.

Neal, I'll leave the die history to you guys, but I didn't say anything about being minted in London. I did refer to dies as being London or Indian.

Thanks again everyone for your positive comments :angel:

nealeffendi · August 03, 2014, 11:26:27 AM

Oops, I was replying to Trigger' when I accidentally typed your handle. Need a blonde emoticon for this.

Triggersmob · August 03, 2014, 05:33:01 PM

Thanks for the reply, Nealeffendi.

autocoupler · January 01, 2015, 02:44:00 PM

Have been doing some research on the Group 2 coins that I pretty much glossed over before, this group comprising about 95% of the overall mintage for 1922 pennies. At this point just concentrating on the London obverse coin with flat base lettering on the reverse (LF-L4+L5-C9-C15 ), which is believed to account for roughly 4% of Group 2 coins, making it the scarcest for this group.

Just using the letters E and L in commonwEaLth and L in austraLia as a reference, and must admit it's difficult to differentiate between flat and curved as the amount of curvature can vary considerably from one coin to the next. Having settled on two suspects that appeared to be the truest examples of flat base lettering, I then looked for die markers in the hope of confirming both coins were from the same dies.

As it turned out both coins display different die markers, so I'm hoping someone ( like Neal ) :angel: may be able to authenticate either of the coins below as genuine flat base lettering.

Hope I haven't been naughty as both pics are not mine, although I did purchase both coins. :dodgy:

Cud below left side of foot on "F" of OF, Dot to left of top scroll.

Diagonal die crack through "E" of GEORG

Diagonal die crack through 22 of date

Cud / raised line below "E" of GEORG

nealeffendi · January 01, 2015, 06:55:50 PM

Yes, both are 1922 FBL English with the standard 9.
The line 22 variety is mostly found as a light spur (12 of 14 coins in my sample) and the slag F variety is the more common and is also mostly as a spur (33 of 40 coins in my sample).
For the slag F have a look at the obverse, you should find a tiny slag/dot on the lower inside of the top dot after MN:
Also a tiny dot on the upper left leg of V in SV
There is another die pair for you to find,it has a dot inside the loop towards the left of O in OF and another between the tops of CO; this is a rare variety and I only have 5 of them (all non spurs). Happy hunting.

autocoupler · January 01, 2015, 10:23:16 PM

Thanks Neal, as usual you're a wealth of knowledge. Very fortunate to be able to run this stuff bye You.

autocoupler · February 05, 2015, 09:45:34 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='64684' dateline='1420100750'There is another die pair for you to find,it has a dot inside the loop towards the left of O in OF and another between the tops of CO; this is a rare variety and I only have 5 of them (all non spurs). Happy hunting.

Back to You Neal. With reference to your description above, could this coin be an example? Unfortunately the focus isn't the best in the area of the "O" in OF damn it, but couldn't put up a better pic, it's not mine.

Thanks in advance

interest · February 05, 2015, 11:37:42 PM

What about a die crack going through the top of the date?

Robster · February 06, 2015, 12:39:14 AM

My kind of coin.!! :ok:

Nevol · February 06, 2015, 08:27:11 AM

Nice Die Crack! :drooling:

autocoupler · July 11, 2015, 04:54:05 PM

This is wierd. Apart from the orange peel surfaces, there is trench like ghosting of the lettering in the reverse legend, particularly of the date (not very pronounced in the pics) and "COMMONWEALTH", also around the left and upper outer edge of the inner circle, and most of the lettering has raised edges. Funny things going on with the beads in the inner circle as well. What makes it all the more interesting is that the coin is the second rarest of all the 1922 pennies, being a Group 1 narrow date, LF-C4+RC4-C9-L15. :yahoo:

robbiegal · July 11, 2015, 08:29:07 PM

I have some a bit similar
i'll take some pics and post up

nealeffendi · July 12, 2015, 03:50:14 PM

Looks like it had an acid bath

autocoupler · July 12, 2015, 10:18:04 PM

Quote from: 'nealeffendi' pid='75528' dateline='1436682014'Looks like it had an acid bath

Yes, it's been through some kind of cleaning process for sure.

Nevol · July 13, 2015, 07:20:40 AM

Harking back to post #19 by auto, description of image with "Cud / raised line below "E" of GEORG", I think this is meant to be above "E" of GEORG", not below. :acute: