Rare Coin Company

[serial]

let me get this right he was told a 200 year old coin would go up 20% in value in the next 2 years?? and he believed it?

I got a bridge to sell him. A fool and his money......... well you know how it goes?

Regardless.  RareCoinCo positioned themselves as experts in the field and professional services are expected to be delivered with due care and competency (I can't remember the exact wording from the legalese).  Failing to do so renders them liable.  Perhaps the 'fool' wasn't so foolish and knew exactly what his recourse was if RareCoinCo didn't follow through with their promise/guarantee.

I 100% agree with you on this but the issue I have is that the action has been taken against the individual not the business that provided the advice.

[markn]

I 100% agree with you on this but the issue I have is that the action has been taken against the individual not the business that provided the advice.

Directors of Australian companies are liable for the legal costs and debts of their company if it becomes insolvent or has been found to be trading wrongfully.

[serial]

I 100% agree with you on this but the issue I have is that the action has been taken against the individual not the business that provided the advice.

Directors of Australian companies are liable for the legal costs and debts of their company if it becomes insolvent or has been found to be trading wrongfully.

hence my comment that there should be a criminal prosecution 1st as not one has proven either of those facts to date

[markn]

I 100% agree with you on this but the issue I have is that the action has been taken against the individual not the business that provided the advice.

Directors of Australian companies are liable for the legal costs and debts of their company if it becomes insolvent or has been found to be trading wrongfully.

hence my comment that there should be a criminal prosecution 1st as not one has proven either of those facts to date

Proven what?  That they are insolvent?  They are, that doesn't need to be proven.  Trading while insolvent is a different matter.

[robbiegal]

all in all
everyone will be a loser
if the holey dollar person makes a claim on jackman's private estate well, you'd expect that by now anything tangible is owned by other family members etc and that he will declare bankruptcy (bit like that doctor bloke egglesomething and the little missues who have 'suddenly' divorced - I bet she''ll own a lot of his property)

and then in the long run - with two big players going under it will be bad for numismatics in toto in Australia

[trout]

all in all
everyone will be a loser
if the holey dollar person makes a claim on jackman's private estate well, you'd expect that by now anything tangible is owned by other family members etc and that he will declare bankruptcy (bit like that doctor bloke egglesomething and the little missues who have 'suddenly' divorced - I bet she''ll own a lot of his property)

and then in the long run - with two big players going under it will be bad for numismatics in toto in Australia

I am assuming that most of the investors/punters were pretty well heeled , They lost their bets on this Gamble .
Like all Bookies The Jackman's would have someone else "Holding the Bag" by now .
Australia is well known for these types, Bondy and Skace come to mind immediately.

[Steveqld]

It doesn't seem that the issue of liability was contested and the Jackmans did not appear nor were they represented.

The decision only amounted to an assessment of the quantum of damages.

I think the person who provided the affidavit of the current value of the item is a member of this forum.

http://decisions.justice.wa.gov.au/Supreme/supdcsn.nsf/PDFJudgments-WebVw/2014WASC0146/$FILE/2014WASC0146.pdf

[nealeffendi]

and then in the long run - with two big players going under it will be bad for numismatics in toto in Australia

Why is it bad for numismatics that the "investment" end of the industry gets clipped?
A handful of dealers were driving the prices for the choice stuff up at an unsustainable pace to cater to those who invested in coins much like they invested in stocks or for their SMSF. That perverted the hobby away from those who buy for the sake of collecting.
Now the prices are deflating back to the level they should of been and once the backlog of stock has been cleared the prices will start to rise at a modest and sustainable rate.

[ausjack]

Thanks for that Steve, very informative mate :good: and I see what you mean nealeffendi but I also see what RG means as it is bad for collecting to have this sort of thing happening.

[markn]

It doesn't seem that the issue of liability was contested and the Jackmans did not appear nor were they represented.

The decision only amounted to an assessment of the quantum of damages.

I think the person who provided the affidavit of the current value of the item is a member of this forum.

http://decisions.justice.wa.gov.au/Supreme/supdcsn.nsf/PDFJudgments-WebVw/2014WASC0146/$FILE/2014WASC0146.pdf

Hmmm.  It appears that the Mr Jackman's sole defence amounted to "Mr Crellin undervalued the holey dollar because I said so."  And he didn't even bother showing up in court to say it in person.

[robbiegal]

nor did he produce Ms Downie or IAG as a matter of fact

[purplepennyhunter]

He didn't have the decency to spell Ms Downie's name correctly. I think it's only respectful (and if you're dragging their name through court) to address someone correctly. Puts no more credibility to the missing defendant at the case.

[Nightparrot]

I might be on my own here but I have some sympathy for the Jackmans. I think they are basically honest people. Their business plan was flawed and, after years of work, they have lost what they built. Yes, lots of other people have lost money as well but I don't think the intent was to deceive.

[serial]

I would like to see a picture of the coin to see if the vf grading is realistic
but I do think it was a bit silly note to offer a alternative valuation to support there argument.
also a quick search on the holey dollar finds this
http://www.news.com.au/national/historic-australian-holey-dollar-sells-for-record-485000/story-e6frfkvr-1226087396886
that coin would not sell for that price today imho and whilst they did inflate their prices somewhat what about all the IPO's from 2011?
I know of shares that would have lost you far more in the heated economy what was 2011
this whole situation spells trouble for numis as no one has trust in the market now days as either a investor or dealer
and remember grading opinions can vary between dealers depending on if they are selling, buying or valuing a coin

[robbiegal]

I agree
we paid quite a lot for our 1923 halfpenny - at the time when the market was still quite hot
now - we'd be lucky to get anything even close to what we paid
same for our 1946 penny as well

I guess you roll with it as a collector
but obviously this investor expected a guaranteed return and that is what they are setting out to have furnished
although obtaining that from a liquidated business/partnership might be a less than successful operation - including  legal fees costs which may amount to quite a sum