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[Basil]

Basil is correct about there being articles on the 1930 penny just about every week back in the early 1960's, I've spotted many over the years in old magazines (like Post and Pix) from that era that mention people lucky enough to find one in change or buying one for a couple of quid. Interestingly none of those articles (less than 35 years after the minting and when most mint visitors of the early 1930s were still alive) mentions a single person recalling visiting the mint in 1930-31 and swapping a penny for a penny.

As you state there were many general interest stories designed to appeal to people without a real interest in Numismatics that were published in Tabloids & Magazines but the majority of those appeared in the period 1964-66,post Decimal currency they faded away very quickly.I know this because i did a Paper Run/Route during my High School years and read all the Papers & Mags.
However there was extensive research into the origins of the 1930 Penny by Numismatists in the 1950/60's,Gilbert Heyde springs to mind,his papers and research must be somewhere. As we approached 1966 every Tom,Dick and Harry trying to make a name for themselves Published an article on the 1930 Penny,mostly regurgitating known facts  and adding some 'facts' that weren't mainstream to give the articles some sort of validity.
As i have stated i can't understand why nothing shows these days,i'm talking about dozens of articles from Sydney Journo.'s and Numismatists,the same would going on in Vict. and the other States.   
As far as the Mint Visitor thing goes,someone didn't suddenly wake up some Morning and decide to write an Article that stated they were given out to Visitors,that doesn't explain how,like the 1919 DD,they were usually heavily Circulated and the majority found in Sydney.
As i have already stated many times i read an article back in the 1960's where the Journalist in question spent considerable time and effort trying to track down Mint Staff that were around in 1929-31.He found one via an Ad in the Age(?) IIRC. 
This person was either a Mint Employee or a Public Servant with Mint duties and stated they were given out to VIP Visitors to the Mint.The VIP bit was later dropped off articles and his statement embellished by others to provide better copy,no question about that. Why copies of this article do not exist so far i don't know but i'm sure  it will eventually surface as people of my age(& older) pass on and Family and Widows sort their belongings.
Common sense will tell any normal person the number of Public visits in 1930 would be close to zero,however there was probably a handful of VIP & official Govt. visits so we are probably only talking about  dozen or less Coins,why aren't they out there now,i don't know,and it doesn't explain how the remaining Coins escaped the Mint but there  would be a 50% chance criminality was involved.
Now whether this Person was lying for some obscure reason,i don't know,but that's where the 'myth' of the 1930 Penny came from.

[autocoupler]

little or no interest  in real pre-decimal coins on this forum
pics removed therefore

Have been away for a while, but always interested in your posts echidna, so keep em coming. Any pics of a good 1919 D.D.  :blush:

[echidna]

little or no interest  in real pre-decimal coins on this forum
pics removed therefore

Have been away for a while, but always interested in your posts echidna, so keep em coming. Any pics of a good 1919 D.D.  :blush:

OK here it is.
Why are they so scarce in decent grade ?

My apologies Auto for not responding to your PM.
Will get back to you.

[stevo1962]

Very nice coin Dave and also the photography.Would love to
have one of these better than the VF20 in my registry set

[autocoupler]

Excellent coin echi. I reckon that's as good as they come from the pond without spending serious money.  :good:

[Basil]

Excellent coin echi. I reckon that's as good as they come from the pond without spending serious money.  :good:

I agree,the one that was for sale on Ebay(Coin was in Turkey or Romania IIRC) last Year was as good as i've seen,this is probably running second.

I'm not sure why they were all so heavily Circulated and found mainly in Sydney,strange one. 
I read an article where the Author stated they didn't appear in Circulation until the early 1960's,apparently no record of them being ID before then.

[autocoupler]

I'm not sure why they were all so heavily Circulated and found mainly in Sydney,strange one. 

Just a thought, but IMO it's possible all double dots suffer from weak/low obverse rims, or a strike related convex dishing of the obverse, either characteristic could be responsible for disproportionate wear in the area of the crowns band and centre diamond when compared to the remainder of the obverse design. I lean more towards the dished strike theory, and could be why the reverses appear to display less wear. 

 If this were true, IMO it would be a mistake to solely rely on accepted percentages of wear when grading these coins. Have seen coins that suspiciously display this trait, such as the example below.


    

[nealeffendi]

[quote pid='114177' dateline='1518737048']
However there was extensive research into the origins of the 1930 Penny by Numismatists in the 1950/60's,Gilbert Heyde springs to mind,his papers and research must be somewhere. As we approached 1966 every Tom,Dick and Harry trying to make a name for themselves Published an article on the 1930 Penny,mostly regurgitating known facts  and adding some 'facts' that weren't mainstream to give the articles some sort of validity.
As i have stated i can't understand why nothing shows these days,i'm talking about dozens of articles from Sydney Journo.'s and Numismatists,the same would going on in Vict. and the other States.   
As far as the Mint Visitor thing goes,someone didn't suddenly wake up some Morning and decide to write an Article that stated they were given out to Visitors,that doesn't explain how,like the 1919 DD,they were usually heavily Circulated and the majority found in Sydney.
As i have already stated many times i read an article back in the 1960's where the Journalist in question spent considerable time and effort trying to track down Mint Staff that were around in 1929-31.He found one via an Ad in the Age(?) IIRC. 
This person was either a Mint Employee or a Public Servant with Mint duties and stated they were given out to VIP Visitors to the Mint.The VIP bit was later dropped off articles and his statement embellished by others to provide better copy,no question about that. Why copies of this article do not exist so far i don't know but i'm sure  it will eventually surface as people of my age(& older) pass on and Family and Widows sort their belongings.
Common sense will tell any normal person the number of Public visits in 1930 would be close to zero,however there was probably a handful of VIP & official Govt. visits so we are probably only talking about  dozen or less Coins,why aren't they out there now,i don't know,and it doesn't explain how the remaining Coins escaped the Mint but there  would be a 50% chance criminality was involved.
Now whether this Person was lying for some obscure reason,i don't know,but that's where the 'myth' of the 1930 Penny came from.
[/quote]
Common sense isn't needed to tell us how many public visits to the mint took place in 1930. There are records (about 530 visitors in 1930 if I recall). Visits to the mint by numismatic society groups were also covered in both Spinks and the society newsletters (they didn't seem to take place in 1930). Perhaps individual members of the societies made their own visits.
Gilbert Heyde did publish some details (but about the proofs).
I doubt criminality was involved in how the 1930 penny ended up in circulation. Pennies, blanks, rejects and offcuts were all accounted for in the normal course (I have not seen Melbourne mints records but have seen the records for Sydney and the records were tallied each week, presumably Melbourne had a similar method).
I have a full list filed away of the names and residential addresses of all Melbourne mint employees from 1944 (and about the time Mullett was interviewing staff). Presumably most of the employees from 1930 were still employed by the mint so one of them could be the person interviewed by the journalist? But why wasn't those details included in Mullett? Bill Mullett was a mint employee who did question the staff about the dots on the 1920 penny, so why didn't they tell Mullett about the 1930 being given/swapped with visitors?
First that I've read that the majority of 1930 pennies were found in Sydney. Earliest finds that I've read of were 1938 (Glenelg) and 1940 (Melb).

[Nevol]

First that I've read that the majority of 1930 pennies were found in Sydney.

Maybe the OP was referring to the 1919D.D.

[Basil]

Common sense isn't needed to tell us how many public visits to the mint took place in 1930. There are records (about 530 visitors in 1930 if I recall). Visits to the mint by numismatic society groups were also covered in both Spinks and the society newsletters (they didn't seem to take place in 1930). Perhaps individual members of the societies made their own visits.
Gilbert Heyde did publish some details (but about the proofs).
I doubt criminality was involved in how the 1930 penny ended up in circulation. Pennies, blanks, rejects and offcuts were all accounted for in the normal course (I have not seen Melbourne mints records but have seen the records for Sydney and the records were tallied each week, presumably Melbourne had a similar method).
I have a full list filed away of the names and residential addresses of all Melbourne mint employees from 1944 (and about the time Mullett was interviewing staff). Presumably most of the employees from 1930 were still employed by the mint so one of them could be the person interviewed by the journalist? But why wasn't those details included in Mullett? Bill Mullett was a mint employee who did question the staff about the dots on the 1920 penny, so why didn't they tell Mullett about the 1930 being given/swapped with visitors?
First that I've read that the majority of 1930 pennies were found in Sydney. Earliest finds that I've read of were 1938 (Glenelg) and 1940 (Melb).

Yeah,that's probably true,but i was talking about the regular finds in Sydney in the 1960's.
I've read Mullet's statements,his summary was he couldn't be certain either way as regards the Gifting/Swapping of the 1930.I also read an article where the Gifting of the 1930,or any other Mint product, was illegal so his investigations were moot before he even started. 
I'm stating where i read a published Interview with a former Mint(may have been a Vict Gov. employee) in the late 1950's or early 1960's where he stated they were handed out to VIP(?) Visitors,that's where the Story started and morphed into many variations since then.There will be a a copy of this out there some where,he was not a Numismatic,he was a Journo. with an interest in the origins of the 1930,it was published in a Paper or Magazine in the early 1960's. 
It will turn up eventually especially if we can get the Sydney Sun & Sydney Mirror Papers of that era off Microfiche.

[Basil]

Just a thought, but IMO it's possible all double dots suffer from weak/low obverse rims, or a strike related convex dishing of the obverse, either characteristic could be responsible for disproportionate wear in the area of the crowns band and centre diamond when compared to the remainder of the obverse design. I lean more towards the dished strike theory, and could be why the reverses appear to display less wear. 

 If this were true, IMO it would be a mistake to solely rely on accepted percentages of wear when grading these coins. Have seen coins that suspiciously display this trait, such as the example below.


    

Yeah,good points,nice Reverse on that Coin.
Also if they were a Test run from the Sydney Mint perhaps they had not got the processes correct.Another also is if they were not Calcutta Blanks and sourced locally perhaps the alloy used was too soft.
Interesting aspect of these Coins was they started turning up in numbers in Sydney around the time of the Menzies/Holt Credit squeeze and the leaking to major Dealers of the announcement that we were going to Decimal Currency.Possible indications of a horde being disposed of.   
Interesting as well is several Dealers and Numismatists in the early 1960's,allowed themselves to be quoted,and in a 
couple of cases risking their reputation by going into print,that the 1919 DD was fake and the dot had been added post-mint.There is a link on this Forum to one such statement in a Coin Booklet.

[nealeffendi]

The 1919 DD obverse was also used with another 1919 reverse. At a guess the mint wasn't happy with the DD reverse die and replaced it (accounting for why the numbers of DDs are fairly low). There were reportedly 3 pairs of 1919 dies sent to Sydney in 1920, as to whether they were used or not is just conjecture, although low rims was a problem in Sydney (might have something to do with the rimming machine, either it didn't make the rims high enough or the mint worker used a setting lower than other mints?). Dished strike might also account for the worn crown. Getting a 1919 DD in better than G grade is hard, I have a bunch but even the best is just VG so the examples pictured above are rippers.

[Nevol]

Excellent coin echi. I reckon that's as good as they come from the pond without spending serious money.  :good:

:agreed: It's a corker, but I'd be inclined to try to halt the verdigris that's in the legend before it gets any worse.

[Basil]

Interesting with Auto's Coin as regards the Die Chips/blobs above the 'UST' on the Reverse,i just looked at the 5 i've purchased over the last year or so and none have those marks.I'll try and dig out the rest to compare on the W/end. May be Planchet flaws or spot corrosion but still interesting.

[autocoupler]

Not cuds Basil, the pics were taken through saflips, just marks on the outside.