Body bagged Coins

[ausjack]

I wish I could play but I can't but it's good to know what to keep an eye out for

[trout]

Photos?

All you need to do is go to the PCGS Cert Verification site and punch in the cert # of any PCGS coin and it will come up with all the details of the coin and sometimes pic's as well :ok:

 http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598700.html

I think giving them to your niece is a great idea.
I would also think plenty of people would like nice (but imperfect) examples?
I wonder what they would fetch if listed as is?

As there are 2 of the same coin in the "Body Bagged" holders I may just list one out of idle curiosity.
I will post a link to that when I list it :ok:

[wwwww]

What echidna says is why pcgs is flawed. Honestly I don't trust then picking cleaned coins. The stupidity of the market going after coins in a hunk of plastic put there under a flawed system. They cost people a lot of money by body bagging perfectly good coins and also by the market over paying on coins in a hunk of plastic.

Why don't you trust them picking cleaned coins? I've sent well over 10,000 coins and not a single coin has incorrectly come back cleaned.

In most cases complaints come from dealers who are upset when their coins come back bodybagged because don't know how to detect cleaned coins or they have cleaned the coins themselves but believe their method doesn't damage the coin and is therefore undetectable.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598700.html
This one has had some work done to the left of the bust, put it under a bright light when it comes back and you'll see it.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598701.html
This one, note how reflective the high points are and how lustre is subdued in the fields, put it under a bright light, I suspect you'll find cleaning hairlines.

[trout]

What echidna says is why pcgs is flawed. Honestly I don't trust then picking cleaned coins. The stupidity of the market going after coins in a hunk of plastic put there under a flawed system. They cost people a lot of money by body bagging perfectly good coins and also by the market over paying on coins in a hunk of plastic.

Why don't you trust them picking cleaned coins? I've sent well over 10,000 coins and not a single coin has incorrectly come back cleaned.

In most cases complaints come from dealers who are upset when their coins come back bodybagged because don't know how to detect cleaned coins or they have cleaned the coins themselves but believe their method doesn't damage the coin and is therefore undetectable.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598700.html
This one has had some work done to the left of the bust, put it under a bright light when it comes back and you'll see it.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598701.html
This one, note how reflective the high points are and how lustre is subdued in the fields, put it under a bright light, I suspect you'll find cleaning hairlines.

Spot on Walter, The "Machine damage" coin showed this when held at a particular angle.



The other "Cleaned" coin shows NO hair lines but the rim is quite dirty compared to the rest of the coin.

I think I will just keep these as representatives of what NOT to send for grading :ok:

It is a real shame that these coins were "doctored" before I bought them, they are otherwise really nice examples.
Spewing :dash1:

[robbiegal]

I think body bagged is a horrible term (maybe that is because I work in hospitals!) and actually see that sight at times
 
anyways, the coin looks nice, is in a holder and the only difference is the description

no shame is learning Trout
gosh, the first time my hubby went off for the driving test he drove my 1966 Volkswagen into the front gate of the house that we rented

I settled him with a cold cordial, pat on shoulder and  the 'get back on the horse' attitude (and of course some additional concentration advice)

anyways,  he chuffed off(well, the volksie did) up the road to then pass the driving test
went on to be a driver of many years now

everyone has got to learn and I like i've said to you - I did get in the hand opinion form a couple of experienced pcgsers here on my silvers as that seem to be the hot spot area for 'discrete or indiscrete cleaning'

[trout]

I think body bagged is a horrible term (maybe that is because I work in hospitals!) and actually see that sight at times
 
anyways, the coin looks nice, is in a holder and the only difference is the description

no shame is learning Trout
gosh, the first time my hubby went off for the driving test he drove my 1966 Volkswagen into the front gate of the house that we rented

I settled him with a cold cordial, pat on shoulder and  the 'get back on the horse' attitude (and of course some additional concentration advice)

anyways,  he chuffed off(well, the volksie did) up the road to then pass the driving test
went on to be a driver of many years now

everyone has got to learn and I like i've said to you - I did get in the hand opinion form a couple of experienced pcgsers here on my silvers as that seem to be the hot spot area for 'discrete or indiscrete cleaning'

I am actually having a lot of fun with this submissions thing :yahoo:
I am also taking more time and putting a lot more thought and effort into grading my coins now instead of just the quick squiz and mark the 2x2 accordingly .
There is a very real element of a challenge sending coins off to be graded, Also the anticipation waiting for the results is quite exciting also

It has added a whole new dimension to my collecting and I am loving it :dance::dance2::dance:

[drakesterling]

What echidna says is why pcgs is flawed. Honestly I don't trust then picking cleaned coins. The stupidity of the market going after coins in a hunk of plastic put there under a flawed system. They cost people a lot of money by body bagging perfectly good coins and also by the market over paying on coins in a hunk of plastic.

Why don't you trust them picking cleaned coins? I've sent well over 10,000 coins and not a single coin has incorrectly come back cleaned.

In most cases complaints come from dealers who are upset when their coins come back bodybagged because don't know how to detect cleaned coins or they have cleaned the coins themselves but believe their method doesn't damage the coin and is therefore undetectable.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598700.html
This one has had some work done to the left of the bust, put it under a bright light when it comes back and you'll see it.

http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/28598701.html
This one, note how reflective the high points are and how lustre is subdued in the fields, put it under a bright light, I suspect you'll find cleaning hairlines.

Spot on Walter, The "Machine damage" coin showed this when held at a particular angle.



The other "Cleaned" coin shows NO hair lines but the rim is quite dirty compared to the rest of the coin.

I think I will just keep these as representatives of what NOT to send for grading :ok:

It is a real shame that these coins were "doctored" before I bought them, they are otherwise really nice examples.
Spewing :dash1:

I don't think the first coin's been tooled. Those scrapes ("machine damage") most likely happened at the mint. I've seen this on coins fresh from rolls. Nevertheless, damage is damage, even if it happened in production.

The second coin has been buffed. Buffing doesn't always show hairlines.

[Fr45h3R]

Here are the cert #

28598700
28598701

My opinion, a bit late since both Walter and Eric have replied, and who have seen a lot more coins than I have, is that the 2nd coin was picked up for cleaning in the following location.

[attachment=2538]

There appears to be a darker spot under the hairlines / scratches.

-rob

[trout]

My opinion, a bit late since both Walter and Eric have replied, and who have seen a lot more coins than I have, is that the 2nd coin was picked up for cleaning in the following location.



There appears to be a darker spot under the hairlines / scratches.

-rob
[/quote]

That is a "Hit" on the coin

[nealeffendi]

I'm new to slabbed coins and it is a great learning curve.
Purchased my first slab just a few months ago and now have a dozen or so (AU55 to MS67) that I am using to grade my collection.
Out of 3,000+ florins in my silver stack I had put aside 200+ as "better than bullion" over the years but 2 weeks ago I went through those nicer florins and by the time I was finished casting a critical slab oriented eye over them there were only 5 that might be worthwhile slabbing. Prior to buying my slabs I would have assumed dozens were worthy of slabbing.
Trout, your coin with the machine damage matches a sixpence I have put aside. An absolute beauty that I thought might make MS65 (or higher) as a possible mint error (I'm sure it happened at the mint), but seeing how your coin was bodybagged I realize that is one less coin in my collection to get slabbed.

[PNC king]

What echidna says is why pcgs is flawed. Honestly I don't trust then picking cleaned coins. The stupidity of the market going after coins in a hunk of plastic put there under a flawed system. They cost people a lot of money by body bagging perfectly good coins and also by the market over paying on coins in a hunk of plastic.

i wonder how many people have read the pcgs official guide to coin grading and counterfeit detection  by scott travers , before they make uneducated comments , read the book learn send coins for grading and then comment

[trout]

I got a bit of a shock this morning when I found out my Ducat way "Bodybagged " by PCGS.
This was originally in a NGC slab graded at MS63, PCGS graded it at Genuine - UNC Details (94 - Altered Surf.)

I have little knowledge with gold coins but I can spot a dipped silver coin a mile away, this coin didn't look dipped to me.
The question to me is did NGC get slack when they graded the coin or did PCGS simply get it wrong?

Either way I am stunned with the results :dash1:

[markn]

I got a bit of a shock this morning when I found out my Ducat way "Bodybagged " by PCGS.
This was originally in a NGC slab graded at MS63, PCGS graded it at Genuine - UNC Details (94 - Altered Surf.)

I have little knowledge with gold coins but I can spot a dipped silver coin a mile away, this coin didn't look dipped to me.
The question to me is did NGC get slack when they graded the coin or did PCGS simply get it wrong?

Either way I am stunned with the results :dash1:

Sorry to hear that Jim.  The best proclamation 8 reale I have is in a PCGS details slab and it came from an NGC AU58 slab and it still makes me sad to look at it.  They are two different companies and they differ both in standards and experience.  There are many collectors who say that NGC has much more experience in grading world coins than PCGS and especially in pre 19th century material and they will not send such coins to PCGS.  There are also those who say that NGC is simply easier on coins than PCGS.  Either way they are two different companies and you cannot expect the same results.  PCGS offer a crossover service that allows you to send an NGC coin in while it's still in the slab and they'll only break it out if it grades.  Perhaps you (and I) should have used that service instead of cracking out our coins.

[trout]

It's all good Mate, PCGS took a very long time to grade this one so I think they have done it correctly .
I have heard that NGC is a lot easier on their grades, So to me that makes them less reliable slabs to buy.

details or not this is still a stunning coin and it is the star of my Proclamation set :good:
I will have a real good look at it when it comes home so that I will be able to tell in the future if a gold coin has been dipped.
The three sovereigns I sent in with the Ducat graded higher than I expected without any "details".
I am especially happy with the   1885 S Shield sovereign that I got off Eric, it graded at AU55 :yahoo:

[stevo1962]

It's all good Mate, PCGS took a very long time to grade this one so I think they have done it correctly .
I have heard that NGC is a lot easier on their grades, So to me that makes them less reliable slabs to buy.

details or not this is still a stunning coin and it is the star of my Proclamation set :good:
I will have a real good look at it when it comes home so that I will be able to tell in the future if a gold coin has been dipped.
The three sovereigns I sent in with the Ducat graded higher than I expected without any "details".
I am especially happy with the   1885 S Shield sovereign that I got off Eric, it graded at AU55 :yahoo:

Did you send your 1879M sovereign away?