Wanted: Info on 2001 CofF $1 rotations

[Ozcoins]

Wot if???  All of us who have 2001 $1 COF upsets post their holdings here so Ozcoins can maybe get an idea of what's been found so far.  

I'm happy to do so and will take some images with my scope ASAP and put up the images for everyone to see.  

I've got some really crook scans, but the new images should be a lot better.

Thanks Nevol,
That is a great idea.  
Some statistics would give me some idea what I am up against.

Once you've found a few, you can always chat to Goldy and see about some swaps, at least for the common ones anyway.

Another good idea.

I was thinking that I would try and find them all myself, but that would also rule out one of the two I currently have, as I did not find that myself either.

I think "phase 1" will be "complete a clock face" and "phase 2" will be "complete a clock face using only coins I have found myself"

[Fulvio]

I was thinking that I would try and find them all myself

Not gonna happen. I've got a tub with maybe a thousand of these sitting here, waiting for time to sort the different sizes, and from that lot I found exactly one. For a grand total of four over the years.

Not saying its impossible, but they're a well-known error which is as actively sought as mules. Even finding a dozen with duplicates is going to be tough.

[Goldseeker]

OK, I first started sorting/noodling coin way way back on the 4 Aug 2004 and except for a period of around twelve months, I have been looking at $1 coins up to current date.

To date, I have looked at in excess of of 2.4 million $1 coins.   In that total, 96,000 coins have been the centenary Of Fedweration $1 coins.

In that total, I have found 483 COF Upsets.

To date, I have made up three Clockfaces, one of which is on display at the RAM Visitor Gallery, one set was sold on EBay a couple of years ago and I still have one set at home here but it does need some more coins to replace some of the coins that are outside of my limits for being in the clockface.

The hardest coins to mount a clockface are those that are +/- 1 degree of accuracy to be able to go into the clockaface at the strart.

The hardest coins to find are those between 4 and 8 O'clock.   The one at 6 o'clock being the hardest and rarest to find.

I have another set that I am putting together that is spaced at every 1 minute of the clock or at every 6 degrees.   Further, I am including the 12 coins that represent the half hour location of the minute hand.   In all, 72 coins are required and to date I have 38 of them.

I am currently siting on in excess 200 COF Upsets that I can't use, all of which are at various degrees of rotation.

I have a special set up on my computer that includes two cameras linked to a specially written computer program that allows me to measure the accuracy to within 1 degree of accuracy.   The clockface that I have on display at the RAM has had four or five of the coins measured by the staff at the RAM and they were withing half a degree of what they should be so my system is quite accurate.

I trust you have plenty of time to get your clockface together and don't slacken off on the quality of the coins that you want to put into your clockface.

Once put together, the clockface really does look good.

Wish you luck.

If you have any more questions/queries just PM me.

Here is a photo of me with the coins at the RAM taken approx. 18 months ago.

Wot if???  All of us who have 2001 $1 COF upsets post their holdings here so Ozcoins can maybe get an idea of what's been found so far.  

I'm happy to do so and will take some images with my scope ASAP and put up the images for everyone to see.  

I've got some really crook scans, but the new images should be a lot better.

I believe your idea of posting ones COF upset holdings would work if everyone measured their coins the same way.   Otherwise I believe it would be a waste of time if your idea is to help forum members build an accurate clock face.

[Fulvio]

I believe your idea of posting ones COF upset holdings would work if everyone measured their coins the same way.   Otherwise I believe it would be a waste of time if your idea is to help forum members build an accurate clock face.

:agreed: But then again, mine are official Goldy-scope™ certified.

[runway]

Great pics emu

[Nevol]

If both sides are shown in 2x2's, surely it wouldn't be too hard to work out the degree of upset with some accuracy.

When I re-do my images, I'll be leaving them in the 2x2's with the reverses in the upright position. I might even get to do them today. :winkextra:

[trout]

The only time I ever notice an "Upset" coin is after I have put them in 2x2's :blush:

[jozk123]

I am going to try to make a "clockface" of CofF rotations.
For anyone wondering what I am talking about, I mean getting a set of 12 coins which covers rotations at 1oclock, 2, oclock, 3 oclock, etc
Can anyone shed any light on how common or rare each of the rotations is?

Good luck

[Ozcoins]

Thanks everyone who likes the idea, and who has wished me luck.

Thinking about the points that different people have made, it seems like a VERY difficult thing to achieve.

The stats that Goldy has contributed make it clear just how rare these rotated coins are.
Also only 12 out of 360 degrees are "exactly right" for a point on a clockface.
Also some points will be harder to find than others.
Also they have been collected, so will be becoming harder to find in circulation....

I think many people (including me before thinking further about it) underestimate how difficult this is to do.

Well done to Emu666 and Goldseeker in managing such a difficult feat.  Thank you also for and sharing info on these.

I will still see how I go, but it is clearly a whole different game than "finding a mule", or finding a wavy".

[robbiegal]

The only time I ever notice an "Upset" coin is after I have put them in 2x2's :blush:

work out the 'up' position on each coin
hold it lightly between the thumb and index finger and gently turn the coin

I do it on the pre-dec years that are known for it
I think that I also posted a 2x2 white sheet that I have marked off with a cross
it is a bit deceptive at times unless they are really well turned
the hubby got one about 7 o'clock form my poker machine winnings last year - it was one of those 2001  one dollars - he was wrapped too
our only resident decimal rotation!

[Fulvio]

hold it lightly between the thumb and index finger and gently turn the coin

This works well, except at shallow angles. The official tolerance IIRC is around 5°, but you'll be hard pressed to spot under about 15° this way.

You can also fold a 2x2, then just drop coins into it and turn them over. If you're prepared to sacrifice the mount, go ahead and draw alignment lines on it.

Of course, anything you find with these quick and dirty methods should be accurately measured. Goldy's double-cam setup is the ultimate, but you can also use a scanner or other arrangement, as long as you can measure a precise angle. And DO write it on the mount.

[robbiegal]

not everyone has a double cam mate
I can't see how a scanner would be any different to the moving a coin on a marked sheet of paper or a well executed hand held turn
as long as you have the centre line (up) of the coin,  right on both sides

[Fulvio]

I can't see how a scanner would be any different

Ask Goldy for a pic of his scanner coin flipper.

Whatever aid you use, the object is to get something you can accurately measure. And to do it quickly and cheaply.
Actually, come to think of it, you don't need to flip the coin in the scanner. All you need is to attach a strip of cardboard of the exact depth of an alignment feature on one side of the coin. Say the 1 DOLLAR on a MoR for example. Then slip the coin in with that side up, align it with the straight edge of the card, and hit the scan button. Measure the angle of a known alignment feature on the other side. Goldy's software uses a line from the tip of the A to the side of the E, but you can use anything as long as its consistent.

[robbiegal]

ok
did I get that?? ha ha
the hubby has some small calibrating measuring thingee
I think he uses that to measure gaps, ect on errors

[keldaw]

every coin that passes through my hands ,get,s a quick turnabout in my fingers before it passes on to where ever ..  ,, kel ,,
have a look at my feedback on ebay and you will see that the last offset dollar that I sold on ebay , I got $ 59.00 for it , that price even surprised me ..      ,, kel ,,