The Misbehavers

[robbiegal]

well you answered that yourself

they were here about 40,000 years before colonisation

the question of the advancement of a society isn't always reflected in what our white eyed school yard conditioned nationalistic perceptions of progress are
"Nothing changed until Colonisation"

What needed to change?

they sustained the country
controlled the environment with fire
replanted as they migrated across country  
they didn't need to build barbed wire fences because people knew what country was their own
had hundreds of languages
had a sophisticated form of law, laws of inheritance as strict as white laws, laws on right marriage and elder driven moral order
they traded with asia and south sea islanders and png

were super healthy and fit - most coastal NSW Aboriginals were well over 6ft tall and had six packs - even the old blokes!
sensibly controlled their population according to conditions

but they didn't have guns or immunity to smallpox
the government  had the 'pillow for the dying race' but their resilience shone through and they have survived to this day to see in some real terms of reconciliation

I don't need to have argument with anybody and it is clearly evident that I am sympathetic and respectful to the Aboriginal men and women whom I grew up with in my younger years and lived close by in my older years .

I have seen these changes in my lifetime;

I saw the right for Aboriginal people to vote come in
I saw the disbandment of fringe dwelling/reserves.
I saw  black men being finally allowed to drink in a pub with their white workmates
I have seen Aboriginal women go from only being allowed to be on the hospital verandas with their new born babies to being allowed to be in the hospital wards with white women
I have seen and known women of Aboriginal decent be returned to their families from who they were snatched at a young age. (too 'white')
I have seen Aboriginal women die before they found their original family.
I have known women who had to get 'passes' to leave the reserve.
I have known women who hid the boot of cars to get out of the reserves.
I have known Aboriginal people who were NOT given permission to marry whites.

I believe that their struggle in this country has been the toughest.

How often do we see an iconic depiction of an Aboriginal Anzac Soldier?

[trout]

How often do we see an iconic depiction of an Aboriginal Anzac Soldier?

Can you give me the number of Aboriginal soldiers that fought and died at the Beaches and hills of Gallipoli compared to other Australian soldiers that perished there???

[robbiegal]

ouch

that is too low for me
end of conversation

[trout]

Sorry RG, just putting thing into perspective here Mate.
I have 2 Aboriginal Grandkids and one Mouldy one , I also have an Italian and a Greek brother in law .
I also work with people from just about every nation on earth.
So NO I am NOT Racist :ok:

[robbiegal]

hang on

i'm back
I have an aboriginal stepbrother too
I believe/know that you aren't racist
and i'd peg you are a true egalitarian bloke (not a vegetarian ha ha)

BUT
in the words of Bob Marley
'if you don't know your history
then you don't know where you are coming from'

the history explains the cultural shame alcoholism and all the bad effects of white colonisation


First World War

Over 1000 Indigenous Australians fought in the First World War. They came from a section of society with few rights, low wages, and poor living conditions. Most Indigenous Australians could not vote and none were counted in the census. But once in the AIF, they were treated as equals. They were paid the same as other soldiers and generally accepted without prejudice.

Enlistment and Service First World War

When war broke out in 1914, many Indigenous Australians who tried to enlist were rejected on the grounds of race; others slipped through the net. By October 1917, when recruits were harder to find and one conscription referendum had already been lost, restrictions were cautiously eased. A new Military Order stated: "Half-castes may be enlisted in the Australian Imperial Force provided that the examining Medical Officers are satisfied that one of the parents is of European origin."

This was as far as Australia – officially – would go.
The Post First World War Period

Only one Indigenous Australian is known to have received land under a "soldier settlement" scheme, despite the fact that much of the best farming land in Aboriginal reserves was confiscated for soldier settlement blocks.

The repression of Indigenous Australians increased between the wars, as protection acts gave government officials greater control over Indigenous Australians. As late as 1928 Indigenous Australians were being massacred in reprisal raids. A considerable Aboriginal political movement in the 1930s achieved little improvement in civil rights.


for more info: Australian war memorial
http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/aborigines/indigenous/

[Goldseeker]

The link in the above makes interesting reading.

Thanks for the link.

[Goose]

That was very, very interesting! Thanks Robbiegal.

[JeffH]

:yeah_what_she_said:
Most interesting.

[Nightparrot]

Thanks robbiegal for the info.

You say "I believe that their struggle in this country has been the toughest." I agree 100%.

I recommend to everyone a book called "Baal Belbora" ("The End of the Dancing"). It's a history of European settlement in the Manning River area of NSW. The history is told from the Aboriginal perspective, as opposed to most of our historical accounts.

[robbiegal]

thanks
I googled that book and found a few copies on ebay but not in the local libraries or the national library - must be my research method

I studied Aboriginal Culture at Uni but don't remember reading that book

it is now on my list

thanks heaps and I am pleased that the RG and Trout conversation has prompted such positive posts

[trout]

hang on

 i'm back
 I have an aboriginal stepbrother too
 I believe/know that you aren't racist
 and i'd peg you are a true egalitarian bloke (not a vegetarian ha ha)

 BUT
 in the words of Bob Marley
 'if you don't know your history
 then you don't know where you are coming from'

Love You RG, You are Gold Mate :heart:

I spent a year working at the Uranium Mine at Jabiru in the Northern Territory and was befriended by an Aboriginal elder that I knew as Eddy ( I couldn't for the life of me pronounce his tribal name).
I was working 2 on one off and after a while I used to spend my first three days off with Eddy every swing and he DID tell me his Story also the links with the Knakkas in the early days as well.
I was also Privileged to be taken to some remote and truly beautiful parts of his land, including many of his Sacred sites
I imagine that I have been to and seen far more of the area around Jabiru that most of the other Non Aboriginal people that have lived there for most of their life due to my Friendship with this Man.
 The difference is Eddy is still "Tribal" and he still lives that type of life (As much as he Can) and I totally respect the bloke .

thanks heaps and I am pleased that the RG and Trout conversation has prompted such positive posts

Me Too :good:

[robbiegal]

yep yep, I hear you

I worked with very different mob/s up north and with people from the communities over towards the territory

with my work in the hospitals there have been elders for whom local community people were not allowed to provide counsel to because they did not have the right social standing, so I have been asked to perform that role with very sick or dying elders

I have also taken elders to the airport as they chose to go home to their country to die than be stuck in the hospital or the city to live out their days (those ones were definitely the Kleenex kind of moments)

and each and every interaction a downright privilege at that  

there are somethings in life that are priceless and I guess you and I (and others here for sure) have been in receipt of those special social gifts

I do believe that there are many parallel cultures in this country and that it is supposed to be the purpose of multi-culturalism. But we all  also live in a country that had a significant pre-European history and the entire continent is dotted with sacred places, the right places for the dreaming stories to be told and to express that religiosity. Anyone who has been near a sacred site will know what I mean. No different to being awe inspired by a magnificent cathedral. Historically white men couldn't see or appreciate it until the modern world caught up and we started to open our minds to begin to respect the anthropology of the Aboriginal culture (and other cultures from around the world). I don't deny that there are a heck of a lot of urban aboriginals who have lost touch with the old ways and for many, they are truly lost in their cultural and social marginalisation. (and that is another story, for sure - yes I have ran VERY FAST down hospital corridors from the odd agro (detoxing) palm islander man in my time!! ha ha ).

[trout]

there are somethings in life that are priceless and I guess you and I (and others here for sure) have been in receipt of those special social gifts

I think it is called "Karma" RG.
People that treat everyone regardless of colour , Race or Creed the same as they expect to be treated themselves do attract amazing interactions with people and have some amazing memories.
I think you are one of these special people Mate :good:

[nealeffendi]

well you answered that yourself

they were here about 40,000 years before colonisation

the question of the advancement of a society isn't always reflected in what our white eyed school yard conditioned nationalistic perceptions of progress are
"Nothing changed until Colonisation"

What needed to change?

they sustained the country
controlled the environment with fire
replanted as they migrated across country  
they didn't need to build barbed wire fences because people knew what country was their own
had hundreds of languages
had a sophisticated form of law, laws of inheritance as strict as white laws, laws on right marriage and elder driven moral order
they traded with asia and south sea islanders and png

were super healthy and fit - most coastal NSW Aboriginals were well over 6ft tall and had six packs - even the old blokes!
sensibly controlled their population according to conditions

but they didn't have guns or immunity to smallpox
the government  had the 'pillow for the dying race' but their resilience shone through and they have survived to this day to see in some real terms of reconciliation

I don't need to have argument with anybody and it is clearly evident that I am sympathetic and respectful to the Aboriginal men and women whom I grew up with in my younger years and lived close by in my older years .

I have seen these changes in my lifetime;

I saw the right for Aboriginal people to vote come in
I saw the disbandment of fringe dwelling/reserves.
I saw  black men being finally allowed to drink in a pub with their white workmates
I have seen Aboriginal women go from only being allowed to be on the hospital verandas with their new born babies to being allowed to be in the hospital wards with white women
I have seen and known women of Aboriginal decent be returned to their families from who they were snatched at a young age. (too 'white')
I have seen Aboriginal women die before they found their original family.
I have known women who had to get 'passes' to leave the reserve.
I have known women who hid the boot of cars to get out of the reserves.
I have known Aboriginal people who were NOT given permission to marry whites.

I believe that their struggle in this country has been the toughest.

How often do we see an iconic depiction of an Aboriginal Anzac Soldier?

Hate to correct a few misconceptions, BUT!
They didn't sustain the country, they trashed it.
-wiped out the megafauna by repeated burning of the forests.
-created a disclimatic environment such that it took white settlement for the environment to partially recover (there is now more native forest in Australia than there has been for thousands of years). An example of this is the formerly grassy areas in western NSW are now recovering and becoming covered in scrub and forest (much to the annoyance of graziers). The Pilliga Forest used to be grasslands.
-The Australian Tiger and Australian Devil are only known as Tasmanian because the Dingo drove them to extinction on the mainland.
-The only true Aborigines were the remnants in Tassie, the rest arrived 8,000 years ago and were the third wave (they originated in northern Burma according to anthropologists and the dingo is very similar to a dog found in that region). The more recent arrivals have adopted many of the customs of the previous occupants (through intermarriage?) but are not true aborigines in the same way Torres Strait Islanders are not true aborigines. If you want to count people who are typically 3/4 white and 1/4 aboriginal as aboriginal then there are now 6,000 aborigines (Tasmanian) compared to about 2,500 at white settlement.
It is nonsense to call people who are 1/16th 'aboriginal" (the recent third wave at that) as aboriginal. My cousins wife is part Chinese, part European and part "aboriginal" so the leftie PC crowd counts her as Aboriginal and expects her to play the victim.
I wouldn't call infanticide a sensible method of controlling the population. There are a number of historical records showing mothers smashing their newborns head on the rocks and other similar actions. The women were also treated as dirt and subject to rape, mistreatment and execution (if they entered any area forbidden to women).
I have no objection to those who lead a tribal life but I do object to the blue eyed/fair haired 15/16th bog Irish urban trash who have their hands out expecting payments because of mistreatment (real or imagined) that reportedly happened to one of their ancestors.

[trout]

Hate to correct a few misconceptions, BUT!
 They didn't sustain the country, they trashed it.
 -wiped out the megafauna by repeated burning of the forests.
 -created a disclimatic environment such that it took white settlement for the environment to partially recover (there is now more native forest in Australia than there has been for thousands of years).

That may be So But over the last 2-300 years we haven't done too flash either.
Most of our Best arable land is now covered in "Suburbia", Our Southern Rivers are now  pretty much just a natural sewage outlet and wherever you go you will see garbage in the Bush.
Nobody is Perfect :ok: